[00:00:00] Speaker A: Everybody, Dr. Ben Edwards here. Welcome to another episode of youf're the Cure. Thank you for joining us. Got a great show today, as you all well know, especially the past, probably year, year and a half.
I love talking about things that are in the invisible realm. Our heart beliefs. And we've had so many guests on that kind of prove things out scientifically in the quantum physics world about how as a man thinketh in his heart, so. So is he. And just how impactful our heart beliefs are on our physical molecules. So we're going to talk about that more today. And guys, if you're new, new listener, you're still just in the natural realm. That's totally fine. You'll still get something out of today's show.
You know, medical school really taught doctors to divide the body.
The physical body divided into systems, organ systems. I talk about it all the time. If you have a headache, see the neurologist, you have a abdominal problem, see the gastroenterologist, you have a joint problem, see the orthopedic.
And then we don't talk at all about the invisible realm, the soul, the spirit. That part so totally disconnected, you know. And actually in a lot of ways, I think religion kind of divides that spiritual body up. All the different denominations, different beliefs. I don't believe this. They don't. That church over there teaches that I don't want. You know, we get into all this division that way. And I just think we're in a.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Season.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: You know, really 2020. And on so many people have, I guess they call it a great awakening or woken up to the reality they thought the world was isn't. I heard a patient just yesterday told me, doc, every single thing I think I thought I knew, it turns out it's a lie. And I mean, he's kind of distraught about it. I hear that a lot, actually.
So there's a great deconstruction going on and a reconstruction at the same time. But we got to deconstruct old mindsets and we got to be open in our heart, I believe to some aha moments of new understanding. So one of the biggest aha moments in my journey as I started seeking the kingdom first grew up in religion. 18 years ago, infertility. My wife and I ate, or it was 18 years ago, but 24 straight months of no pregnancy. And then read that verse, seek the kingdom first. And I didn't even finish the rest of that verse because it just hit me that day. And I'd read that verse before, but that day it hit me, whoa, we're seeking a baby. We've been seeking a baby first for 24 months.
And that moment was a shift in my heart. Seek the kingdom first.
And it's been 18 years, guys.
And one of the first understandings was church versus ecclesia and the body of Christ, the church, which is his body. That's the only biblical definition. That was huge. And that was a one to two year journey of just wrestling through what church even mean. But the very next thing, sonship versus orphan, and that was huge. And I started realizing I'm making all these decisions in my life from a vantage point of an orphan. I got to provide for myself, I got to protect myself.
I don't know who I am, my true identity, don't know my daddy.
And when you have that mindset, you're going to make a lot of decisions. Wrong thinking produces wrong beliefs produces wrong behavior.
And a lot of that impacts our physical body. So there's no getting around this, guys. If you have heartburn or high blood pressure or cancer or heart disease or migraines or autoimmune disease or infertility or anything in the physical, I want you to consider the impact of a heart belief. And in particular today we're going to talk about our identity as an orphan versus a child of the king and sonship.
So this great book, healing the Orphan Spirit here I have on the screen if you're watching this on video. And I've asked Leif Hetland, the author of this amazing book, to join us today on the show. Leif, thank you so much for being with us.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Dr. Ben, this is very exciting.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Well, it's, I'm as I think more excited than you, but I'm glad you're excited too and just learned that you've worked with Beaten Bow Homes here in Lubbock and some other folks here in Lubbock. So just, just so excited about that too. But for those that don't know you, can you share a little bit just about your journey and you know as much of that journey as you want to share and then obviously specifically what led to the book and what impacts you've seen even around the world with this message that you're put, you're preaching in this book, but just share your journey of how you got to where you were to where you are now.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Sure.
First of all, my name is Leif Hetland and I am from the country of Norway.
About 60 years ago, my mom was pregnant with me and she didn't know she was pregnant. It Was maybe three, three and a half months into her pregnancy, she had a major surgery. And then when I was born, I didn't realize that there was some root fear because she carried me for about six months with fear and was afraid that the surgery had damaged the baby. So I came into this world with some fear in my life. Didn't know it at the time, of course, as a baby. And it came from a good home, godly home and everything else. I was 12 years old and a grown man was trying to attack me, try to tear off my clothes. I was just young child at the time. But through this trauma, shame and guilt came in. So I had three big giants. Fear, shame and guilt. That was part of my journey. And because I had pain in my life, like many people, I'm looking for something to medicate because pain seeks pleasure and you're looking for it. And for me, I ended up as a prodigal son. So the next five years, my parents didn't know what was happening to me. But I shut down and I started to move as far away from God as I could be. And make the story short, five years into that journey, I was like the prodigal son and the pig pen. I'd just been kicked out of a boarding school for addiction. Was out in the park in Oslo, started my journey home, felt it was better to live with my parents than being out on the streets. But I was full of fear, shame and guilt. But I also, with all these addiction going on in my life. But then I had this glorious experience. First of all, a good homecoming with my parents. Because it's the goodness and kindness of the Lord that leads to repentance that had led to eventually. Two months later, I got gloriously saved. I met Jesus and he healed me and he delivered me. I said, that's the good news. The bad news was I went from rebellion to religion. And now after what Jesus has done for me, I'm going to serve him. And I suddenly now I got involved in Bible study and prayer and actually left my country, Norway. I started to serve him and I became a very good servant. But I didn't know deep on the ins, there was still something missing in my life. There was still a black hole in my soul. So I was no longer as a Zen prodigal son, but I was out on the field being a prodigal brother. I was serving and working for the Father, but I didn't know who I was. This led to a journey. First I ended up in Germany and Scotland. Ireland. Eventually came to The United states. But by 1988, I met this beautiful Southern Baptist girl in Columbus, Georgia. A year later we got married. But on the inside, because in the orphan world is that you have to do. And if you do, then you will have. And if you have, you become. But it doesn't matter how much you do.
You have to perform more to have more, to become more. And when your value system is that I have to do, I have to perform for love, for the Father to be pleased with me. So I was comfortable with Jesus. I just didn't know the Father. I was on the way, but the way he never let me home. And Jesus is the truth, but I didn't know the truth, that it was the truth about the Father and that he said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. So when I have love deficiency in my life, I always have God deficiency. And you end up looking for love in the wrong places. I had gone from rebellion, but I didn't know. Now I'm in religion. And religion is mainly based upon what you're doing for God instead of from God, where you're trying to achieve what you only can receive.
But when I don't do enough, my wife don't do enough. And later on my kids didn't do enough and the church didn't do enough because they also had to perform for love. And it's often a love with a hook. And that started my journey again where eventually make the story short, I went to Bible college, seminary, became a pastor. We moved back to Norway. And consistently I didn't realize there's still this black hole in my soul. I'm still looking for love, but I ended up looking for in the wrong places. And because I didn't have the affirmation of the Father, I was looking for the affirmation by the people that was around me for them to tell me who I was. So this identity crisis. On June 6, 1995, I had a powerful experience with Holy Spirit and a new encounter with God that was part of changing my life. And that led me to going into the darkest places in the world. It was a word over my life that I was going to go into the Muslim world, the places where the gospel had never been before. And through this encounter as a Baptist pastor and I have an encounter with the Holy Spirit, ended up in Pakistan. And make that story short, I ended up in some of the darkest places in the world. But I ended up with a broken neck. Later on a broken back body cast. We moved back again to America and So I'm here now, again, an orphan, trying to please the father. And By December of 1999, there was this physical pain, emotional pain. I'm in the middle of a storm spiritually, because here I have a word over my life. I'm trying to serve him, I'm trying to please him. And no matter how much I do, I'm sitting in a wheelchair in this new world. I had 12 major surgery using opioids to be able to function so physically, emotionally and spiritual in the middle of a storm. And I had this crisis moment. It's like I'm about to lose everything.
And then I got kicked out of the Southern Baptist, the denomination that I was part of. And it didn't become easier when you are an orphan and because again, you don't have a father, you don't have a protector, you don't have a provider. And you have to do this and you have to do, to have to become. And I remember that day in Disney World where I was sitting in this wheelchair and my baby daughter at the time, we had four children, but she was sitting on my lap and it started to rain and I knew I had a word over my life to see a million Muslim come to Jesus and other words. But again, here I cannot do anything any longer. And that was a crisis moment. And especially as an orphan, when your body shuts down your emotion and even spiritually speaking, just like Jesus, it seems like he was asleep in the middle of my storm and I'm drowning.
This led to actually a man who is well known in the Lubbock area named Jack Taylor. He's kind of a key person in Texas. And so even there were the beaten boat people. They got the kingdom through Jack Taylor. And he was. He eventually became our spiritual father. And anyway, so December of 99, he had invited me to come to this father and son. And that was during my worst brokenness. I was no longer in the wheelchair, but I had chronic pain. So I was sick spiritually, emotionally, physically, every area. And I'm supposed to be healthy. I'm supposed to go to the nation, have everything that the word of God says about me. But all the opposite happened. And I still remember we were in a small meeting with a group of leaders. And in this meeting there was these waves. There was actually a man from Texas named Dennis Jernigan. He says, leif, I have a song for you. And he started to sing a song, and it was a song from Papa God for Me. And this was a father's song. And as he started to sing it. His waves and waves of liquid love came over me and it wouldn't stop. Before you know it, I was on my knees and then I was on my face and I just started to weep. I used to be strong and I'm the fighter. I've been going to 54 countries, seen half a million people saved, 300,000 people healed that I was an orphan. I'm laying down this floor now, having an encounter with the father and these waves of love. In the next moment I see this little baby in the mother's womb. And at that moment I didn't know. I found out about that later, about the surgery of my mother. But her love went into that baby and touched that little baby because perfect love cast out fear. And then it was a wave that went to the 12 year old and the trauma and it was like having a movie. I'm laying on the floor there and it would be hard for me to describe, but I remember the story of D.L. moody and Charles Finney in my Baptist days of they talked about this liquid love and that's all I could. At least I had some language from my experience. And it's the only time, Dr. Ben, that I've had an audible voice. But an audible voice from heaven says, lathe, you're my. And you're my beloved. You're my beloved son. Son, son, I love you. I love you and I am well pleased with you. And it was something that went into the deepest root of my very being. I came up from that floor. I'm a son, I'm a beloved son. My father loves me, he likes me, he delights in me. None of my circumstances had changed, but I had gone from being an orphan, living full love to becoming a beloved son that got the love and to live from love. And I remember even there because my big calling was Pakistan. At the time I was going to go to Pakistan and I was like, I don't have to go to Pakistan any longer. I get to do it and I don't do it alone any longer. I get to do it with my father. And all I do is what I see my father do. And so this started both a health journey for me because certainly now there was some basic things that changed. Security because an orphan is insecure. But now I have the security. I'm a son, but God is my father.
And I don't have to prove anything any longer. I already have the approval of my father. There was this rest that I was getting just from the security love went into those love deficiency in my life. And I have to look for love in the wrong places. I have an A plus on my report card before I take the exam. So I can actually wake up with pleasure instead of pressure.
And not living from duty, but living from delight. My father is well pleased with me, and I learned that later on, both when I wrote my book and many other books about this topic. But this became part of my journey. So, security, love, then value. He restored my value that I'm valuable and I'm not looking for value. He restored my value of who I am and whose I am as a son. And then there was an affirmation that came from that very thing. And then as a result of that, when the testing came, hey, if you're a son, you need to do something. I realized, no, I don't have to. I don't have to do anything. I don't have to perform what is. What my father says about me is the truth. And knowing that truth set me free. So what's the freedom? I started with freedom, started to see my father's face, hear my father's voice, feel his love, experiencing his presence and resting and abiding in his pleasure. And that started my journey as a beloved son with Papa God. And I've been on this journey now for. That's 26 years since all of that started to happen. And I kind of was smiling because I have a couple of doctor degrees on my wall here. And I smiled about it the other days because one of the places where they celebrate academia, I had just put all of my titles there on the different doctor degrees that was there. But the last one, I put in a little bit bigger letter. I put D LH So everybody knew what a THD was and demon and all of these. But when I came, what is that DLH I said, oh, that's the hardest doctor degree. And people were looking and said, that is Little Helper.
And that.
And I said, that is the most hard one, is just being a little boy with a big, big papa. And the freedom that is taking whom the son set free is free indeed. And where the spirit of the Lord is, there's liberty. So I realized that so much when I had the orphan spirit, the ultimate orphan, and the first orphan, Lucifer, he's also a father, but he's a father of light, while Papa God is the father of truth. And so either operated from the light or the darkness. So I realized just a big shift, the paradigm shift that took place. He gave me son glasses, sun glasses. The way I was seeing God the way I was seeing myself, the way I was seeing the world and the way I was seeing the future, there's certainly the shalom, this peace that was coming in the middle of it. My worldview changed, the way I was reading scriptures changed. Everything changed from that moment. And it's been a process. But I've been on that process journey then, as I say now, for 26 years. So that's kind of a shortness. And today I have a business and two nonprofit organization. But even five minutes before I actually got on here, I was with a top Muslim leader of Pakistan. And we were just sitting there. And it's just interesting to see the places he takes me, the people I get to see. And now literally hundreds of thousands of people around the world, they've also got to experience the same thing. And I've everything from quadriplegic walking to see cancer disappearing. I think one of my favorite story was in actually in Ankeny, Iowa, where there was a lady in a wheelchair.
And I thought she was coming and asking me to pray for healing, which is one of the area of ministry I do, is to pray for healing. But instead she said, I want him to heal my orphan spirit. And I started getting teared up because I thought she, she wants to dance and she wants to walk again. She was a young girl who had been in an accident.
And when I started to minister a baptism of love and dealt with her because she said, I've been prayed for hundreds of times and nothing has happened. And I feel more like an orphan instead of a beloved daughter. And I know you say it is the father's good pleasure to give his sons and daughters good gifts, but I don't feel like that. I feel more like an orphan. And I knew her whole heart belief system affected everything. And after she had an encounter with a lot, that's when we started to see movement first in our fingers. And it was an hour and 45 minutes afterwards she's running around the building and an explosion took place. And that's when I realized for the first time to see the connection of emotional healing, physically healing and including spiritual healing, which is the majority first thing that takes place when you go from being an orphan to being a beloved son and daughter. So for me, this has kind of been my life message. It's been the foundation. It's how I see the wool, how I see God now as a loving father and how everything has changed as a result of it. And of course now part of my thing is to be able to help other People to find the same freedom, to find the same peace, find the same wholeness that God wants for his sons and daughters so that we can make an impact to the people around us, knowing who we are and whose we are.
I know. That was a long.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: No, that was awesome.
You can just see the, the freedom, the joy and the peace, the excitement. You just want to share this with everybody, and so do I. That's why I have you there, ask you to come on today. Because this is such a freeing understanding and revelation for people.
So I don't know how would, how you would say life, but you know, if someone's judging their, themselves as a feeling of heaviness, burden, obligation.
Do, do, do you. You said this doing instead of being.
Um, but is that how you would encourage someone to kind of examine their life and if they feel those characteristics, would this be, you know, the orphan spirit to go look for that and consider that?
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it is a very typical thing because in the orphan world, I do, and if I do, I have. And if I have, I become. That's a typical thing. And it was Lucifer. It started in the garden. He said, hey, if you eat from this, you're going to be like God. Course I want to be like Jesus. Well, do something. Then you will have, then you will become. Because Lucifer was the first orphan. And when he came into the garden, he had no longer home when he left heaven. And that's kind of started the whole war. And you can trace that even there with Jesus when he's coming in. After the highlight of Jesus, before he had preached any sermon, before he healed any sick. First of all, he was baptized by John. Heaven opened up, a dove came down, which is a pitch of the Holy Spirit resting upon him. And the reason the Spirit could rest upon him is because he had rest on the inside. And the dove find a resting place. But then it was the baptism of love. And that is when the Father says, this is my beloved Son, whom I love and whom I am well pleased. And then right after, when he was led into the wilderness to be tested. Let's test this. If you are a son, turn this rock into bread. If you are a son, if you are, it is a question as, hey, if you do something, you will have something. You then will become something. But Jesus, he knew who he was and whose he was. And the Bible said he came out of the wilderness full of the Spirit. So I am what I do, I am what people say that I am in the sense. I'm looking for affirmation. So. And Restless and lack of peace is two of the biggest indicator. I realize when I'm. When I'm sitting with somebody, there's this restlessness that is rooted and I feel I need to do something or there's a lack of peace. So I know myself. There's moments that I. Getting into the orphan way of thinking and usually the restlessness. I feel this in me. Fight, flight comes in. Or as I'm saying, just the peace. The dove doesn't have a place to rest because I'm no longer operating from a place of rest. And rest becomes my weapon of warfare.
While sonship is. I am, I am. I am a son. And because of who I am, I already have. Papa says all that I have is yours, and because of what I have, I get to do. So it is not what you do that makes you who you are. It is who you are that makes you do what you do. And that was a big paradigm shift from sonship or going from an orphan to sonship or daughtership.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Well, in your book, I made a few notes on.
You said sons are complete, orphans compete.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: And you also said resting. Excuse me.
Resting versus striving and works versus fruit. So there's this little sneaky deception, little twist on things. You know, you're going to be doing stuff. But is that a workspace from an orphan mindset? Got a do, do, do versus no, I'm going to naturally produce some fruit. We're going to do stuff with our.
Something's going to occupy our time.
But is that fruit versus works, rest versus strive, compete versus no, I'm complete. I thought those were awesome, but kind of, you know, especially we. I think we have a lot of people that are believers, grew up in church and various religious backgrounds.
But that can be tricky for some people to think, I don't have to work, I don't have to do something for God.
You know, doesn't the work prove that I'm who I am? You'll say that I am, but just kind of.
Can you explore that a little bit more on the works versus fruit and how someone could truly be at rest yet doing. And I mean, you've pretty much touched on it, but just drive. Can you drive that home a little more? For someone with a more religious upbring that just has a hard time conceptualizing that.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Just as simple there in John 15, there's a beautiful picture about the vine and the branches. To say it in a simple way, branch without the vine cannot produce anything. And that's what it says in John 15 and it is the same thing for so many of us that we're trying to be a branch that is going to try to produce something. But you don't produce, you produce the fruit by abiding and it is by resting, it is by wrapping yourself up in him. So I think in the moment and this is because the orphan spirit actually separates you from love. So the root system of it is fear based. So I know you're dealing with an orphan spirit when the root system why I do what I do it is fear based and I'm doing this so I can please him or I'm doing this so that one you're already pleasing to him.
So Jesus, before he preached any sermon, he did things. He did work and he did. But before he did anything he had an A plus on his report card, meaning the Father was well pleased with him. So right now I'm going to. I just came from Cuba two days ago and we saw tremendous fruit and so much healing to a nation that we got to be part of. In four or five days I will be in Nigeria. They just killed 200 Christians in this one area. Later on I'm going to be in Afghanistan, Pakistan. I go all over the world. But I don't do this to please God. I'm already pleasing to him. I don't as a branch is going to going in there and try to produce something. No, I already as I'm saying I'm abiding in him and he is in with me. So Jesus only did what he saw the Father do. He said what the Father says. So often the orphan, if you look at their past mirror there is guilt. If they look at the mirror for today there's shame. And if you're looking into the future, there is fear. And because the orphan have even the financially speaking there's like a pizza and eight slices. You Dr. Ben got a slice, I got a slice. So somebody's not going to get a slice instead of the papa. God owns the bakery. So it's a mentality of how we operate and who is our Father. And this is what Jesus came for. And this is where I think it's just we've had a half a gospel when we're focusing on who will be saved from instead of what we've been saved to.
So again, it is not what you do that makes you who you are. It is who you are that makes you do what you do. So you work. The work is not something big. He has angels that can do the work for him. 24 hours I didn't have children because I was thinking about who's going to cut my grass and do the dishes in the future.
But my children honor me and my children, they serve. It's just that comes out of the nature of what love looks like. So love connects here, disconnects even their cancer cell. I've seen many people heal from cancer when they had the baptism of love experience just recently, two other cases with stage 4 cancer because cancer cells divides and you are a doctor, know this much better than me. But when love comes in and the liquid love goes into the root area and some of that is what caused cancer in the first place, and love comes in and. And they are connected to God, connected to themselves. And people also start to love themselves the way papa God loves them. You love your neighbor as you love yourself. And that's been the 2.0 version of the baptism of love for me. Because after my baptism of love, I started to love God with all my heart. I received his love and I returned it. And I started to love people well. But then he started to deal. Six years into the journey, what does it look like for me to love me the way that papa God loves me? That's covenant at one man. That's when you are totally one with him. And then from there the love flows in to your marriage, into your home, into the community and everything. But I cannot give something, Dr. Ben, that I didn't first receive. So it's learn how to rest. And when you rest, you receive. And when you receive, you become. And when you become, you release. And that's why I feel that rest is such a weapon of warfare. Because out of rest we are wearing the enemy out.
So the operating system and often is restless in nature. And that causes all kinds of complication including the fight flight, including how it affects your immune system.
When people are coming back into abiding and resting from that place, I get to operate, I get to move. Everything flows from him, it goes through him, it goes back to him. There's two different systems. I wrote a whole book called Call to Rain about chair number one, which is sonship, and chair two, which is the orphan womb. But even for believers, the difference between these two systems and even the worldview, the glasses, how we see God, ourselves, the world and the future.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: Hey everybody, quick break from the show. I've got something really special to share with you. I'm so excited to introduce you're the Cure, a self paced nine module online video program. We've been prayerfully and passionately building here at Veritas. And this isn't just another wellness program. It's a movement of truth, transformation and hope. And I truly believe it has the power to change your life. It's designed to help you uncover the root causes of what you're facing and walk in true healing. I'll be guiding you along with other members of the Veritas team as we return to God's original designed for your health. Through simple, powerful tools focused on nutrition, hydration, movement and peace, you'll gain clarity, confidence, and lasting transformation. The journey is yours to take, because the truth is, you are the cure. Head over to veritas wellnessmember.com to get access today. Become a Veritas wellness member now and get $100 off the program. Guys, I'm just so excited about this. After 20 years of practicing medicine, it's boiled down into this. This is the core of what you need to truly be. Well. So we'll see you in the program.
Yeah, I love the analogy in the book. Just because I grew up playing basketball and you were talking about, imagine a child playing basketball and hits the winning three point shot and the crowd goes wild and you know, the coach and dad and mom and everybody congratulates him. Obviously he could get his value and self worth from all that praise and accolades versus, you know, the father that values and loves that kid just before the game even starts. You have the same amount of value, love, accolades, appreciation.
You know that really, because we're in such a performance based, I mean, from day one, you need to perform for your grades in school. You need to perform to win this contest or this athletic performance or this academic performance or this performance mentality is just drilled into us.
But I want to go back to when you talk about Jesus coming in, you know, going into the wilderness and the, the liar coming, the adversary, the accuser of the brethren. If you're the sun, turn the rock into bread. If you're the sun, jump from the temple and call your angels to catch you. So provision, bread, protection, jumping from the temple and then come to the mountaintop, bow down to me, I'll give you the authority over the kingdoms of the earth. That authority was given to me, I'll give it to him. I please going right after his. The whole reason he came to regain that authority that Adam was given.
But his identity. So provision, protection, identity. If those are the three main lies, the enemy comes right at Jesus with probably that's going to be right where he's going to go after every human is those three areas. Is that what you found in working with administering to people?
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And I, I think it's also another way of saying exactly the same thing.
I am what I do is the first test.
Then I am what I have is the second test. That's, that's where you're going to get your value. And then I am what they say you can get all these different things. That's those three different areas is also the three root lies that we are going after. And it is all connected to Lucifer with the orphan heart and with the orphan spirit. And so I'm. I'm seeing this from a ministry to orphan pastors and orphan business leaders.
And I've had the honor as I said to in so many different including at the Christian Psychiatry Association. I've been ministering this from prisons to CEOs, billionaires. I had that one billionaire that flew with a private jet all the way to Asia to sit down and he said I, I have an orphan heart. I build all of those different things. It's like you build a Babel and that's the orphan wall.
I build a Babel and I'm trying still to see how close to heaven I can get with this and but on the inside I have a black hole in my soul. Can you help me? And it was the wife that had given him my book. So I'm meeting people. I had another person that went to all kinds of crisis at the age of 70 and just was major love deficiency in his life. And then at the age of 70, I mean every success, hundreds of millions of dollars. He had everything that you can imagine. But he came and just says but I'm an orphan. So the way he treated.
He didn't have a wife. He'd gone through three marriages. The way he treated his children didn't have much relationship yet pretty much issues everywhere in his life. He had wealth but it added sorrow to it and he had upbraided. And it was not before in his 70s that he experiencing the father's love. The affirmation of the father he was affirmed by the father and the father dealt with. It was actually 12 year old boy when he came home with the report card he got a 98 and the father rebuked him. Now all these years he's still trying to please his father. He's still trying to score to hear I'm proud of you son. That day when I prayed over him and release it was a 12 year old and I've seen that with including in Cuba this week story after story people Physically being healed, emotionally, marriages. But just when you're getting into the root issue of their whole belief system, something starts to change there, even in the way that starts to be able to receive from God the very thing they try to achieve.
And that can be healed. That can be everything that they need to sustain their life. So it's just beautiful when people are. That's one of the biggest joy in my life is when. When I'm getting to see somebody, just they get a new root system. And I say they are rooted and grounded in love, and then they're stepping in to know the depth of that love, the width and the length and the height of that love. And then in Ephesians 3:19 said so that the fullness dwells in there. Orphans live from measure. Sons and daughters live from fullness.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Wow.
And we, we're wired by God, our Creator. We are wired for this connection to Father. I mean, that, that's an interesting word. I mean, God could have described himself in any lots of different ways, this amazing creator, whatever. Most high and lots of words do describe them. But Jesus came to, to lead us back to the Father, not just to heaven Father. So this Father word is so key. So we're wired for this connection, but then we're programmed by some malware, some bad virus in our operating system that just. And when you. So if you don't have that clean, you can do a whole lot of other work in your life.
And just like you've laid out that billionaire, you can get a whole lot done in life.
But until you get that malware out, reprogram rebooted back to your original wiring and programming, you won't have that full rest and peace. That is what will allow the physical system to operate more fully and in order.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: I want to talk. You mentioned the book, the definition of depression, biblical definition, because there is a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety, but heaviness, I see it, I see it all over the place, all the time. And it's such a. In the season we're in right now, it seems like in the earth even, and people looking for certain relief, whether it's a political party or this election thing or this thing or that thing, but this heaviness. And it doesn't take much circumstance to flip someone into heaviness. But can you talk a little more about that? This biblical definition of depression called heaviness, and then you go through five keys to kind of overcome depression or heaviness.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah. No. And first of all, I just thought about one story I know it's a little bit separate than what I wrote in the book, but I was just thinking about the disciples. Jesus says, let us go to the other side. And they're getting right in the middle of the boat. And then there's a physical storm, there's an emotional storm, and there's a spiritual storm. So it's real. If Covid was real, heaviness is real, depression is real. This is what they were feeling. There was water and there was wind. So it's a reality of what they're experiencing. It was an emotional storm. Anxiety and fear was there and it affected them. The spiritual storm is sometimes the hardest. Where are you, Jesus? Where are you, Jesus? In the middle of it, but I just thought about that while we were talking. But Jesus is there. He brings his cushion, knowing there's going to be a storm.
And why would Jesus rest? Why would Jesus? Because where his Father is, there was peace, there was rest. So he could speak to the storm that was on the outside, because there was no storm on the inside. So he actually speak to the storm and said, why are you afraid? Or why are you anxious? Or why are you depressed? Or why are you?
So it's not that the physical is not there or perhaps for somebody emotional, but even the spiritual storm that comes in and when that heaviness comes in. So for me also there's another connection to that. I have seen that fatigue, as an example, is one of the biggest weapons of the enemy. And the enemy is trying to wear us out. And we have seen this many, many times, the fatigue. Then fear comes in, then failure, then forsaken, then. And he isolates you. You see what Elijah first Kings 18, he has all this breakthrough, but he's depression and suicidal less than 48 hours afterwards. How, how can this great man of God. I've seen it with preachers, I've seen it with CEOs, another one. In one moment it can be there and the sun is shining. But in a moment the weather changes and the root issues that is in there, they're suddenly now suicidal in nature. And that's what happened with Elijah. And it started with fatigue. So if you see the pace, then fear, then failure, then forsaken, and then depression, anxiety and heaviness came in. Same with Simon. His intention was I would never betray. He's with Jesus. He was a genuine believer. He had a lordship of Jesus. He left everything to follow Jesus. And then if you start to study the fatigue factor, they fell asleep three times when they was supposed to be with Jesus. Interceding that just shows you that Jesus had to wake him up. You could not be awake then. Eventually, the enemy is building a fire. And when he came there, when they are following after Jesus, he's been captured by the soldier. Peter goes to warm himself by a fire again. You see the heaviness, you see the depression. He goes to warm himself up. And a lot of believers right now, they're trying to find a fire to warm themselves up, and the enemy is setting the trap. The three things, fear, shame, and guilt. And then you see the depression and the heaviness that comes in. He's not there on Friday, he's not there on Saturday, he's not there on Sunday. Eventually he backslides to go back to fishing again. And you see that in early John chapter 21. What is going on with these people? I mean, he had seen all the miracles, seen all the healing, but still he didn't deal with a root issue that led to both the depression and heaviness. And then Jesus builds a cold of fire. And when he comes to that fire, why would he bring it only two times? In the Greek, the cold of fire is one is in John 18:18.
And that is when he betrays Jesus at three different times. He betrays him the very thing he would never do. But when depression and heaviness comes in, you do things and you medicate, and there's things you do. But now later on In John chapter 21, he builds the same coal of fire, not for condemnation, but an invitation to become who you are. And then he do the three times, do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? And he deals with a root issue. And then he speaks into the identity again. He restores his identity, but also he restores his destiny that flows from that very thing. And from that moment on, he doesn't go back to be a Simon, but he stays at Peter. And despite of the circumstances we see in the Book of Acts, he continued because he dealt with a root issue and he had a baptism and encountered with love. But he also started to love himself the way that Jesus loved him. That sets you free also for the heaviness and the depression. So I just felt those two stories just came to my mind because I know so many people right now. What is the gainer and the drainer in your energy in regard to just what do we do also, even to love ourselves? Well, I'm not talking about a bad love, but it's been also important as you're putting the mask on yourself before you put the mask on somebody else. So to. To stay even healthy there because I see fatigue. There's so many things right now that people are not aware of and that I've seen over and over again leads to the heaviness and the depression that can. Comes in over people. But now anyway, we can go back to what we had there in the book of.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Yeah. The five keys to overcome the heaviness and depression.
I'm sorry, I had another note. I can't read my own writing.
Dr. Ryan. Oh, I, the. I had not really seen this or I guess thought about it enough.
On the prodigal son story, you know, everybody focuses on that rebellion like kind of like you, that prodigal going off, rebelling.
But that older brother, the works based. If I can work, follow the rules, do, do, do, do, do.
And it's just the other pendulum, you know, of the same lie really.
But kind of. Can you talk about that story a little bit from that angle of that I never really thought about before on the older son in the works based mentality.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Because again, the, the story is not about the prodigal son or even the brother. It is about a loving father that has.
We actually have three sons and one is telling the story about his father and his two brothers.
And that's Jesus. It's in red. And he talks about again. And this was not two sinners, it was a father that had two sons. It says, it didn't say two orphans or two sinners. Both of them operate with an orphan spirit. It is the tree of knowledge, of good and evil. One was the evil and the other one was good.
But that tree was cursed. In the garden, Jesus represented the tree of life.
So when it comes to the prodigal son, our tendency is to see that. But the brother that is out on the field, he also received inheritance like all of us have. But he's out there on the field trying to please the father, not knowing he's pleasing to the father. He's out there. Again, the way that he was judging the prodigal son, his brother is another tendency. He didn't see the orphan spirit in his own life. He's out there even in some of his entitlement every single day. He could have been in the father's house, see the father's face, hear the father's voice, feel the father's love experience in the father's presence and abiding and resting in the Father's pleasure. And from that place he could go out and minister.
But what he was doing. He's being out there and he's being offended with the Father for his graciousness, his mercy and love. Not looking in the mirror and realizing, like I have said it publicly, that I was more lost in religion than I was in rebellion as a drug addict.
When I was studying the Bible, praying, fasting, reaching people for Jesus, I was more loss because deception is very deceiving.
I didn't realize my lostness when I was in religion. I was out there, but then I didn't get a lot of the benefits in regard to the intimacy that you only can get from a proper identity that I was out there now doing this. Because if I'm doing, then I'm having, then I'm becoming. And this is what changed in December 99, when I met Papa, God and this glorious homecoming. And I came into the Father's house, the refrigerator is full, and I got to sit to Papa's lap. And certainly now, when I was looking at his face and hearing his voice, it didn't matter what other people were saying. When I was feeling his love. I'm not looking for the love in the wrong places. So all those different things that I was out there trying to get, I can only actually get in the Father's house. So even the Father's house, there are many rooms and certainly now starting to do their life with the Father. And everything flowed from that. That was the secret of Jesus life.
And that's why he's using the illustration, because the whole story there is taken. Why do sinners and tax collectors love being around Jesus? Well, they wouldn't want to be around a brother.
Shouldn't they love being around us? That's one indicator that we are representing a father that looks like Jesus, that sinners and tax collectors love being around him. And the religious people said, how could this be God when sinners and tax collectors love being around him? And that led to the shepherd that had hundred sheep, he lost one and coin. And then the father, with the two different sons, one was rebellious and one was religious. But I love what the Father even says. The Father goes out there and is looking at him and says, son, it's like, why are you upset? And then the Father says something. He says, all that I have is yours every single day.
You can live in the Father's house, you have access to everything.
And we have that also. So you can live a lifestyle of shalom, of wholeness. You get that in the Father's house. You get that in his presence. That was the secret of Jesus life. And he did everything from that very place, not for that very place. He was not trying to please the father. I'm already pleasing to the father. I don't have to eat from the wrong tree any longer because there's a tree of life. And that's the invitation, and that's what the Father's invitation is for all of us. And then from identity, intimacy, inheritance, you can step into your destiny.
And that's the opposite. So who are you? Identity. Then second question is, where are you? Adam? Adam, where are you? Intimacy? What do you have? Inheritance.
So the father. Inheritance doesn't happen when you die. It happened when Jesus died.
You have access to that, and that's where we are living. From inheritance, everything that he paid for is available.
But all of that comes from intimacy.
And intimacy, you can only have that with identity.
And then you're stepping into your destiny. If you are a school teacher now, I'm a son that teaches school, or I'm a Dr. Ben, but I'm a son that is now bringing wholeness and health. So again, the identity of being sons and daughters, that represents the Father.
So if you're seeking first his kingdom and his righteousness, it is his righteousness, not your righteousness. That's the difference with the prodigal brother. It was his righteousness what I do instead of what Jesus has done.
Then all these things will be added unto you. Why is things being subtracted from me instead of added to me? Oh, what am I seeking? First, is it his kingdom and it is his righteousness. Then all these things, even the prayer, Our Father, which is your papa, Dr. Ben. My papa. It is our Father. We honor his name. Then we can see his kingdom come and his will be done in our life, in our body, in our finances, in our relationship on earth as it is in heaven. It is a family business, and you can't get that as an orphan. It's a frustrating thing to pray the Lord's Prayer and not see the experience of what he's inviting us to.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: Yeah, and a lot of times religion, I think, will just say, well, it's because we're in a fallen world and let's just hang on until we get to heaven or till rapture.
Maybe speak to that a little bit in the book you talk about. The Jews knew God knew about him, his laws. I mean, they even, you know, memorize the first five books.
How intertwined is this orphan spirit in a religious. Religious spirit?
You know, they seem like almost like the same side of a different side of the same coin kind of thing. But do you see that sort of just playing off each other.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: Really. And it is also a strategy of the enemy. It started all the way go back to the garden. So even what you are introducing a shalom a place. But if you're thinking about it was Father, Son, spirit.
He said, let us didn't say me make man in our image. In the image of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So they created on earth what was in heavens. After six and a half days of creation. Papa, God goes down and he makes an image. He breathes the very breath, the ruach, and he breathes in on Adam. I believe the first thing Adam ever saw was the face of a loving father. The first voice he heard was the love. And he felt the love of the father, experienced the presence of his father. And in Luke's genealogy, Adam is called a son, son of God. He was a son Adam put to sleep. Because when you are resting, God is working. And then he creates Eve. And then the Bible said God brought Eve to Adam. Who was she with before she met Adam? The Father. Who did she see? Adam. She saw Papa. She felt the love, experienced the presence. Now two people are whole Shalom. He brings them together to be be fruitful. He didn't say do fruitful, just be fruitful. What you become now, you can multiply. What you can multiply, you get dominion. Lucifer, who was an orphan, came into this setting seeing the intimacy they had with a father, knowing their identity. He knew the trick is, hey, if I can get him to do something, to have something, to become something, they're going to read, eat from the wrong tree. So he said, hey, if you eat from this, you're going to be like him. Of course I want to be like Jesus. Well, do something. Perform for it.
Do something. That's religion. That's been the strategy. Because if I can get you to do, to have to become wow, then you do more, have more. And suddenly now the Father of lie will come in. That's what happened. The fault came in. And then we know the whole ripple effect. And we could go to every book of the Old Testament and trace until the last word of the Old Testament is curse.
But it says, before the judgment day of the Lord of the terrible day, I'm sending you the spirit of Elijah. I'm turning the Father's house back to the children, children's hearts back to the Father. What's going to stop the curse is God is going to restore his family. And then 400 years of silence. This is the genealogy of Jesus the son of Abraham, the son of David, son's son. And then he goes through the whole story. Jesus becomes that son. And so the whole divine exchange that took place even on the cross is in a moment. I think the most powerful scripture verse that I base my whole book upon is in John 4, 14, 18 when Jesus says, I will not leave you as an orphan. I will not leave you as an orphan. I will come to you. He came to restore back to the original of what father God had before the Father, I will come to you. And in the moment on the cross he says ali ali, ali lamasa batani. He always called him father, Father until this moment said my God, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? At the moment he was separated from perfect love so we could be restored back to that perfect love. For a moment he became an orphan so that we could become sons and daughters of glory. That restores back. It's a whole divine change that took place on the cross. He took our sins. So we are righteous shame. So we are glorified. All these benefits and a lot of us we have settled with hey, he took your sin, now you're righteous. And then you're going to try to become who you are. And then on this planet are we living in a fallen world. And before you know, we're going to be father by two. Either you be fathered by a loving father, the Father that Jesus knew, or there's going to be the same, the Father of light that is going to come in the Father of darkness. And you're either going to deal with rebellion, sin issues in your life or religion.
And both of those are restless and lack of peace. And it affects your body, it affects every aspect of your life. It affects and you're not going to be able to bear the fruit that is needed. When I squeeze you, what's in you comes out. Love, joy, peace, patient. If you're abiding in him, in your identity, out of that intimacy and from inheritance and you're stepping into your destiny.
[00:53:05] Speaker A: Hallelujah. Amen.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Be careful, Dr. Ben. This kind of a thinking can lead to dancing and you can become a joyful Christian.
[00:53:14] Speaker A: Can't be having that.
Wait a minute. That's a fruit of the spirit. I guess we can do that life. We just have a few minutes left and this so may shouldn't ask this because this could be a big question but recently it's just been a stirring in my heart because of just all the chaos really I think since 2020 Covid and just so much and obviously in the medical world that I'm in, and just all of it, the corruption everywhere and end times. Are we at the end. And all this revelation talk.
But all of creation crying out, groaning out, crying out for the sons.
Are we supposed to be maturing in our sonship? From an infant son to a toddler to adolescent to a young adult to a fully mature son as a body. And I'm using that word son, ladies, not as male nor female, neither male nor female, slave, Greek Jew, all that. It's the word spiritual. It's like men when you talk bride of Christ, so don't get hung up on that word. But all of creation crying out for the sons. Are we supposed to be maturing up? Not in a performance way of we've got to do this so Jesus can come back. But there's something there. It seems to me Satan's just running roughshod through deception.
The father of all lies, lying to humans and humans operating out these false beliefs about themselves and God in creating all this fruit. That's not good because. And, but now the sons, right? You know, having an understanding of love and love your neighbors, yourself.
And we're gonna see a shift in the earth when the suns and all the creations waiting for us to basically get there. This is kind of, to put it bluntly. But what are your thoughts on that kind of mindset?
[00:55:07] Speaker B: No, and, and I'm totally there even in you talk about eschatology or the view of end time and where we're at in time.
Because I think that even if you're looking as an orphan, you will even see that this is the revelation of Antichrist. No, the Bible says this is the revelation of Jesus Christ. And then as you're moving in, it started well and it ends well. It started with a family and it ends with a family represent from every nation, tongue, tribe. Start with a garden, ends up with a garden city. So you can start just to see where we're at in time right now. If you see what the enemy is doing, you can clearly get in on what God is doing. So don't be distracted by what the enemy is doing. Get in on what God is doing. And the reason I know, like why did he try to kill the baby boys? Moses the deliverer is coming. Why did he try to kill the baby boys? Jesus the Savior is coming. So if you follow the trace of where the enemy is attacking, he's going after identity. He's trying to destroy the value. He's trying to go after marriage, family and you just starts to see this whole operating system, how Lucifer, the ultimate orphan, is operating. There was a reformation that restored grace, and that was Martin Luther.
And that also restored Jesus to the world. Justification by faith and grace alone. Another one in 1906, there was a birthing. The Holy Spirit has always been around, but it was a new birthing of that. And now you have both the Word and the Spirit. But now this next one is called the Agape Reformation, which is. The first one was grace. The second power, this one is love. And that's how the world is going to see who we are, because the way we love one another, and that's also an answer to Jesus prayer there in John 17, that the very love that he has from the Father, that love is going to be in us. So when the sons of daughters moves into the maturity and creation, they're getting to know who the Father is and they get to know who they are. And that's also how the world is going to believe.
John chapter 17. And this is what Jesus is praying for us. So creation. Right now, as you're seeing with all the shaking that's going on, they're looking for something that is unshakable. And you find that in the mature sons and daughters, they found a resting place. And the dove anointed sons and daughters find a resting place upon you. And from that very place, we do what we see the Father do. So he loves us just the way we are the Father, but he refuses for us to stay that way. He wants us to be just like Jesus. And that's the journey of the sonship, to be more and more, to be with him, to become like him, and learning how to live and love like he lives and love and experiencing the same wholeness that he had. And this is what creation. The Muslims are looking for it, the Hindus are, the Buddhists are.
You will find that the whole orphan world, and this is my joy, is to be able to represent a God that looks like Jesus to the world.
Because Jesus came to show us the Father and any view. And this is 93% of the believers has a view of God that doesn't look like Jesus.
Where did that get from the believers? 93% of the believers has that view as a result of it. How do we see God, how does God see us? And how do we see the world and how do we see the future?
So they have not rejected him, they've just rejected the prodigal sons. And the brother issues that we have represent a wrong image of God that does not look like Jesus. So 28% of Americans seem authoritative or see God is critical or he is this. No, he is. We have all these views who show the world that believers who has a wrong view of him, then you have a wrong view of yourself and the wrong view of the world. So this is so much of my assignment. I want everyone to know how good Papa God is and I want everyone to know how loved they are. For that to happen, we need to experiencing a God, a father that looks just like Jesus. He's the perfect reflection. And now each one of us, sons and daughters, get to reflect that in our homes, in our workplaces, in the way we live and love and are demonstrating what true sonship looks like by showing them the love of the Father.
[00:59:02] Speaker A: Amen. God has been misunderstood and misrepresented for a long, long time. And like you just said, even believers.
But there's I think a new understanding that's coming through you and others.
This identity thing's huge.
And as identity as a son versus an orphan, I mean these are massive transformational moments.
And you know, we're, we are out of time. So I'm at to have you back on the show because it comes up all the time and there's no way around it. But you know, bad things and suffering and of course illness, sickness, all that, it's a huge topic. And if God's, you know, an all powerful created everything, you know, then why can't he just how do you let that happen basically? Or even worse, did he make that happen? That bad thing happened. So I don't know. Like I said, I probably shouldn't throw that out there. With two minutes left we can have you back. But if you want to comment briefly.
[01:00:06] Speaker B: On that, Leif, now all, all I know is that God is good and I am loved. I've had bad things happen. But that is not because that is the father that is doing this. And so he had used a lot of these different things in my life to know how good he is and how loved I am.
And it's just been so beautiful for me, my journey because it's so hard for me to experiencing anything different, no matter what my circumstances. The simplicity is how good he is and how loved I am. And simply because I'm a son and I received a beautiful divine exchange, wake up in the morning and having an A plus on my report card not because I'm good, but because he is good. And it's called grace. And if Graceland was good enough for Elvis is good enough for me.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Amen, guys, I highly recommend healing the orphan spirit. Leif Hatlin. Leif, what's the best way for people to follow you, Learn more about you, your other books, your website, social media, all that.
[01:01:11] Speaker B: They find me, of course, on YouTube and all the social media @leifatlan@.
And that they can also, as I'm saying,
[email protected] but also the books. If you just look at Leif Hetland, they can find it on Amazon and Audible, all kinds of form.
And that book also, Giant Slayer is a good book. Seeing through heaven's eyes. How do you see God? And how does God see. And the world and the future. Those four questions. And then I think the call to rain is probably one of the most important because it just shows us the paradigm. I'm using these chairs as an analogy. The difference between the sonship and the orphan. And. And we go through the journey in all different areas of life so that people are called to rule and reign and life together with him. Romans 5:17.
[01:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, guys, this is a big, big deal. In my life, it's been a really big deal. Learning to have a mindset and a viewpoint. The goggles, you're looking through an orphan versus a son. It's. It's really a huge foundational piece to being set free and experiencing the true peace and the rest that we were intended to be walking in despite our circumstances and despite the chaos in the world that we will be a part of. Partnering with our father to bring his will into the earth.
The culture of the kingdom of heaven coming into the earth through that father son relationship. And we're. We're a part of that, guys. So get the book, Keep diving in more. Keep seeking the kingdom first life. Thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your time.
[01:02:51] Speaker B: Thank you, my friend.
[01:02:52] Speaker A: Okay, everybody, I'm Dr. Ben Edwards. You're the Cure. This will be on the website veritas wellnessmember.com and all the podcast platforms, YouTube Everywhere. Share it far and wide. People need the truth to set them free. See you next time. Bye bye.
