Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of youf're the Cure. Excited to have Dr. Peter McCullough back because he's got another book, his first book, I believe this was your first book, Dr. McCullough the Courage to Face COVID 19 and co author John Lake. And John Leake is a co author of the new book too, which is Vaccines, Mythology, Ideology and Reality. That's such a great title because it sums it up perfectly. So we're going to dive into this book and for those that don't know, which I can't imagine anybody doesn't know at this point, but Dr. Peter McCollough out of Dallas, Texas. He's MD, MPH and he's epidemiologist, cardiologist, internist, well credentialed, very well published. And as it talks about in the back of the leaf jacket here under the bio, in 2020, he published the Pathophysiology Basis and Rationale for early outpatient treatment of SARS CoV2.
He was a leader in the medical response to COVID19. I just want to say for one second here, that's an understatement. A leader in the response to COVID 19. I mean I to this day still don't really understand how you do this. Dr. McCollough, from the get go, you saw the truth, went with the truth, totally evidence based.
And not only did you help lead, and I'm not saying there weren't other leaders, but to put the amount of work that you did to bring the evidence forward, to summarize it, to publish it, to go on record, multiple hearings under oath at multiple state houses and national senate hearings, et cetera, but to coordinate other physicians around the country to encourage and that's the book, the courage to face COVID 19. Talk about courage.
Physicians had to have courage. But as a leader and where you came from. And that brings me into the first question for the new book.
You grew up probably like I did. We just believed at face value what the institutional authorities were telling us about vaccine safety and efficacy and a lot of other things in the medical field.
What made you take this stance against the norm and come out of kind of the mainstream way of thinking, both COVID 19 wise. But then this book, I mean talk about physicians don't want to be labeled anti vax. And the irony is the science, the evidence and the lack thereof, which is what you go through in the book. But just share a little bit from a motivation standpoint how you got to where you are today.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: Well, Ben, thanks so much for having Me on the program and you know, as an adult medicine doctor, I never held strong views on vaccines.
I went to medical school at UT Southwestern and I can't even remember even a class on vaccines. The schedule may have been presented to us. And I've never attended a grand rounds ever on vaccine safety.
And I attended grand rounds regularly. Many times. I was the co chairman or introduced the speaker. I don't even remember a grand rounds on autism or even a medical lecture on autism. To me, it was a very vague illness. Now, as an internist and cardiologist, I have autistic patients in my practice. When SARS CoV2 hit, everything was shut down. We never had grand rounds or any review on how to treat Covid or about the vaccines or how to manage complications from the vaccine. So we entered a whole new world. Without medical education, without having our traditional vetting of information, things just started to happen pretty quickly. And as you pointed out, I felt compelled to jump into action to do what I could do, as you did, treated as many patients as I could, try to encourage others to do something. Remember, SARS COV 2 was all about just doing something. Don't let the patients get hospitalized and die. It was a pretty simple, you know, it was a pretty simple motivation.
Now, what we saw through the pandemic, especially what looked to myself and my co author John Leake as a madness, people became enthralled with vaccines. You probably remember that Stephen Colbert video where he's dressed up as a vaccine syringe and dancing around on stage. We realized people actually kind of lost their minds over vaccines. So we asked the question, historically, how did this happen?
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and talk about historically. We're talking all the way back into the 1700s, which I'll say, you know, as kind of an intellectual, scientific minded person, it's great to have ideas and theories, hypotheses and, you know, experimentation.
So this thought or idea that, hey, we could grab a little bit of pus or grab, you know, know, a bacteria virus, you know, introduce it somehow to a patient and maybe that'll help their immune system to recognize and then mount a better response down the road. I mean, it's a legitimate thought and, and you know, theory.
And so can you go through maybe historically, was that how it started? Was that the thought and then what were the, the outcomes of that theory?
[00:05:28] Speaker B: We identified some very, very early experimentation in Africa and Egypt, not well documented. So we really couldn't write about it. So we pick up in 1721 in Boston with prominent Puritan minister Cotton Mather, he's a very important character, may have been one of the most influential intellectuals of that time of interest. He also was the pastoral consultant to the judges of the Salem witchcraft trial. And, you know, it's a different time. People had different belief systems. Clearly he believed in witches. But Cotton Mather sadly watched three children die of what sounded to be measles. And can you imagine the fear back then of a disease? You didn't even know it was an infectious disease, didn't know what caused it.
At that time. Viruses and bacteria were not discovered.
They just knew something happened. And he watched his children die. And we chronicled this in our book. And so he takes up with this procedure with Dr. Boylston called variolation.
Variolation is taking, as you pointed out, a little bit of pus from one smallpox pustule in one child with a scalpel, then using a scalpel with a skin nick and inserting that in the next child.
This thought that maybe it's a poison. If you had a little bit of it, you could fight off the illness. So it's an ingenious idea.
And Cotton Mather gets going with this and proclaims that it's a gift from God. This is from the very beginning. So, you know, we have this ideology of this religious connotation to vaccination. That's kind of how it starts. Now, that's 70 years before Edward Jenner. Edward Jenner in the Gloucester of the uk.
You know, he actually begins with more formal vaccination. Vaccinia comes from the word vaca, or cow. Took in a little bit of cowpox material and then doing the same type of approach into a child. Remember, the hypodermic needle comes in a little bit later, so they're not yet doing injections.
And then we take off from there. But the theme here is, early on, they couldn't have possibly known what they were preventing. They didn't know how it spread.
They wouldn't know if something worked or didn't work because we wouldn't know if anyone's challenged. So this had to be taken based on faith. And because vaccines were initially taken on faith, through medical science and history, this faith based acceptance has persisted to this day.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, can you talk a little bit about, you know, Edward Jenner and Smallpox and kind of the success or lack of success of that.
Bring us up to speed on Jenner's input into this whole vaccine history.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Jenner is a member of the Royal Society in the uk.
He had originally published some ecological papers, but when he had this first idea and we anticipate that he picked it up. The idea from variolation. Variolation had already been pretty far extended. We have many chapters on this. But for example, King George III.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: And.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: His wife, they had 15 children and we don't know how many of them actually underwent the smallpox variolation procedure, but we know two did for sure.
And sadly, these two children died of smallpox. They actually died after getting the smallpox by variolation. But yet this enthusiasm. Pers Jenner makes the observation that milkmaids milking cows that may have had cowpox, a similar illness, seemed to be immune from smallpox. And for women of the day, Bennett was important because smallpox actually made these pock like marks in the skin. And so that milkmaids were known for having beautiful skin without pock marks. So there was actually a beauty component to this.
And so he took up with this procedure. He did this on a young boy named Phipps. And as the story is told, Phips was protected against smallpox. We can't prove it or disprove it. Jenner's first paper was rejected by the Royal Society as a pamphlet. They thought it wasn't valid. And then he did a few more attempts and ultimately this took hold. But he became at the right hand of the king, became royalty, became quite wealthy. So that's another theme here, is this empiric science, hubris and proclamations and then wealth and power.
They were all very closely associated with the early field of vaccinology.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Yes. Can you talk a little bit about. I heard you in another setting talk about inferential thinking to approximate the truth.
The lay public in general, but even physicians, I think if we don't really analyze this, you know, the hard sciences, physics, mathematics, engineering versus the science of the human body and how much can be a hard. And we can get to an exact truth versus no, we've gotta. There's the art of medicine and we need to do observation and the human body so complex it's going to be hard to come to absolute truth. So speak to that a little bit.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: I remember both you and I went to Baylor University and I remember one of the best courses I ever took was the philosophy of science.
And we learned there that there's kind of two basic ways to think in science. One is deductive thinking, meaning you start with a law like the law of gravity, and then one does calculations and say, well, if the law of gravity is this, then we should be able to hold up the roof or elevate a plane in the air.
So we start with a principle or a law, and then it's applied and, you know, these laws ultimately become known and get refined. Great credit to the early physicists and chemists and engineers who did this.
And then the other way to approach science is when we have a very complex problem, we can't possibly understand it because let's say it's a living organism, you know, a human being or, you know, a frog, that we make observations, we apply everything we can in terms of our knowledge. When laws apply, we use them, but ultimately we never really know the truth.
And we make these observations, we make a series of inferences, we discuss them, ultimately try to decide, you know, what this part of truth is, and then it's pursued with more investigation. So in medicine, we've always said that we have lifelong learning because we use inferential thinking. We never really know the truth. And clearly back early on in vaccinology, they didn't even know what the organism was. Remember that the isolation of the organism, that comes much later with Robert Koch and others in Germany.
So early on they didn't know. Maybe it was an evil humor, it was a toxin, it was horse grease.
There's all kinds of assumptions. So one thing that did work in smallpox, so a very important A city in England, Leicester, England, it ultimately said that the smallpox vaccination wasn't working. There was great concerns about dangers of giving people smallpox.
And then they adopted an approach of strict isolation, cleanliness and brought smallpox under control without vaccination.
So smallpox, whether one took a vaccine or not, ultimately became conquered because of just, you know, the principles of isolating the child with smallpox, not letting them wrestle with other kids or share the same bedsheets. Cleanliness, because it was spread by these, you know, these pustules.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: And that's a good point. I think we can jump straight to as far as, you know, it seems like people and physicians, pediatricians maybe in particular, forget that we have an immune system and the, the, the in incredible design of the body. And I think it was on Focal Points which, which guys, side note. John Lake is an author on Substack Focal Points. I highly recommend that newsletter that comes out often and some of these points I'm about to make have come from that newsletter. But sunshine, There are studies that so show sunshine, especially for first morning sun, and the impact on the immune system and the white blood cells a beneficial impact.
Steps, 7,000 steps. I believe it was in the article recently published.
Improve all sorts of chronic disease but also the immune system. We know the microbiome we know diet. So this all speaks to the terrain, I think I would call it. But the, the impact of the immune system, sanitation, nutrition, sunshine, these kind of things. So we have to remember back in the 1800s, mid to late 1800s, early 1900s, the Industrial Revolution, these big cities, no refrigeration, clean water and sanitation, sewage, all of that. Imagine New York City in the summer with no pavement, just mud and horse manure and horse urine. You know, horse were the main mode of transportation. All these buildings being erected, they had to have fire to cook their food or whatever. It was just it wasn't a clean environment. So speak to that a little bit. And especially in conjunction with infant mortality rate at the end of the 1800s.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Well, we pick up on this with some chapters. One of them was about the Thames river and John Leake, such a brilliant writer. It's called the Great Stink of just the Stench of Urban Living. Remember, before this age, as you pointed out, people largely lived in the country and life was a lot cleaner. And there were societies, by the way, that did much better with clean water and sewage, including the Roman Empire. The Greeks, the Egyptians, they did much better. They understood this. But once we had these Western countries, Western Europe, North America, South America, starting to congregate in cities, holy smokes, did we have problems with sanitation. And it was the civil engineers that were able to separate clean water from sewer water, you know, better standards of living, that made illnesses go away. And we know this because even illnesses for which there's no vaccines, like erysipelas or scarlet fever, that they essentially went away.
So it can't be. The vaccines we found were given undue credit. And that mortality from these illnesses wasn't really from the illness themselves itself. It was really from frailty and susceptibility. And that's where your comments about the immune system and vitamin D and nutrition come in, that almost certainly those who died of measles were malnourished, weakened, very frail. The same thing with smallpox and same thing with diphtheria and pertussis.
You know, there was a problem with infant mortality, even maternal mortality, and most of it had to do with uncleanliness of the labor and delivery method. And this was brought up by semmelweis in the mid 19th century who said, listen, you know, if we just wash our hands, we're not going to transmit puerperal fever, endometritis from woman to woman. And sadly, Semmelweis, he was castigated, he was smeared, he was thrown out of societies and he Died in an insane asylum. So I want the public to understand the medical orthodoxy is commonly on the wrong track and they don't admit when they're wrong.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's a huge problem.
And I said it early on in COVID 19 until we can confess where we've, we got it wrong, we made a mistake, we didn't see it right. And just say I'm sorry. The American public's very forgiving and so confession and then let's go a different direction, let's change our mind and let's come together and put the patient first always.
And come at this from a team approach. And even to this day I don't know that I've seen much if any of that. In fact I had a patient this week, last week actually and this patient's from Missouri, I'm in West Texas. I said why'd you come?
I couldn't find a doctor in my area that I trusted and that's why they came.
But the initial, that was his comment, his initial visit last year. This was a follow up visit and he actually was excited to tell me his former PCP back in Missouri had just called to inform him and basically apologize, Confess, apologize. This PCP told this patient he was forced by the employer to give these COVID 19 vaccines.
And once he learned of the danger, but a hundred patients on his patient panel have have a vaccine injury that he just couldn't come to grips in terms and he resigned recently to start his own private practice outside the system. But I mean so there are those doctors point being that do see and eventually do they say I'm sorry, come confess, come out of that system. But as, as a group and especially from an, you know, authority, fda, cdc, medical boards, associations, AAP and others, we don't see a whole lot of that.
Which again is why it's so important guys, to get the book you've got to inform yourself, you've got to get educated on the historical perspective and the current perspective. But sorry, just a little side note.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: There on the need for to tell you the story of my wife's gynecologist and I think another fair way to approach it is just being honest and you know, understanding risks. So my doctor, my wife's doctor is Dr. Gunby in Dallas. He's one of the older obstetrician gynecologist in Dallas. His claim is actually I think he's delivered more babies now in north central Texas than anyone in history.
And anyhow she went in with fear and trepidation. I think in 2021 or 2022 for an exam. And she was afraid that she was going to get pressure to take a vaccine. So she's in one of the Baylor clinics on the first floor and she sees Dr. Gunby and she starts to feel him out on the vaccine. He said, listen, he says, I'm old, you know, I considered myself vulnerable. He goes, I took the shots myself. He said, but I would never suggest them for a young healthy woman.
I mean, that's a fair answer. I mean, it's okay. I mean, people were afraid.
Patients in nursing homes, I have great sympathy for them. My parents have been in senior homes now. My mom still is right now.
And I have great sympathy for this kind of decision that, you know, was I at risk or am I not what people were being told? They did see other people in the senior homes dying.
So I fully understand that. But when we get down to employers mandating novel genetic Covid vaccines for perfectly healthy employees after now this is after our CDC comes out and says the vaccines aren't working, boosters will be needed and that it doesn't stop transmission.
And this is before the Biden mandates. So the employers just did this on their own. That's where I think we need to see some apologies come in. These employers can have to come out and say, listen, we got it wrong.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
But even I think a step further, that'd be a great first step. But the mandated flu vaccine for healthcare workers, making that a mandate of employment or to keep your hospital privileges, stay on staff or be employed when the risk versus benefit, just the loss of the freedom to make a choice and to be informed fully because most people aren't on the very poor efficacy of the flu shot and the potential risk and if you're healthy, almost zero risk of any long term issue with that. So even beyond the COVID shot, I think the employer mandate on the healthcare employees is an issue.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Well, Ben, you know, the association of American physicians and surgeons in 2000, 25 years ago passed a resolution against any form of a medical or vaccine requirement or mandate should never be. These should all be personal choices. You know, I took 40 flu shots to be on staff. Over time, I never felt strongly about it.
But looking back on this, I mean think about it. Less than a 1% chance that any one of us gets flu. I've never even been tested for it. So it's a less than 1 percenter to start with, number one. Number two, the flu shots are some years have efficacy, that's essentially zero. Recent Cleveland Clinic Study shows those who take the flu shot are more likely to get flu. There are randomized trials showing those who took a flu shot more likely to get the common cold. That was happening to me. I was getting common colds over and over again.
And then what can happen is I know the side effects are rare, but you know, because it's such a low value shot, any side effect is unacceptable in my view. And you know, my brother's colleague here in Dallas was completely paralyzed with Guillain Barre syndrome after a flu shot. It's unacceptable.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And to mandate that. Okay, sorry, I got off on a little tangent here. Back to the historical timeline. We can jump in wherever you want. But guys, this is why I love the book, because of that historical. You can get a full picture of this.
I'll just call it religious faith and belief in, in these vaccines. And we need to be a little more careful with that. So jumping to maybe polio an interesting. In polio, same thing, terrain versus germ.
There's studies that show in the microbiome, polio living in people that have zero symptoms. And some studies, 70%, 90% polio in the microbiome, zero symptoms. So there's more factors involved. But talk a little bit about polio, that's kind of always a big scare. In fact, chapter 14, polio the big scare and the savior. So touch on that a little bit.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: Well, polio was the first vaccine campaign that happened with modern media like tv. So now the whole public could be aware of it. There was never a polio pandemic. Never.
So, you know, we're talking less than 50,000 cases a year. It's not a pandemic.
You know, people in the numbers of thousands with paralytic polio, but polio. Interesting. And this is kind of John Leakes investigation. It may have been a product of actually too much cleanliness and too much wealth. And so in relatively impoverished places and in years previously, you can't find evidence of lots of polio in 1500 or 1600. It just kind of comes out in the 20th century. And it may have been because you're right, the microbiome has changed. People actually had less exposure to polio. But when it happened, it certainly could be paralytic. An important University of Michigan study showed that it was grossly over diagnosed. And in that study, when they finally had the ability to test for the polio virus, see what it was, only a quarter of polio cases at University of Michigan truly had polio. There were other things like transverse myelitis. Young kids with shoulder dystocias and other problems. But the bottom line is polio was grossly over diagnosed and people just assumed it. We actually have a little piece in there about Mitch McConnell, U.S. senator who claims he had polio as a child.
And we investigated. There were no reported cases of polio in his town of Five Points down south at all.
And so he just kind of made that assumption. And Mitch McConnell made a big deal about RFK and polio vaccine. But the polio vaccine campaign highlighted a few things. One is that many times the initial versions of vaccines are not safe or is the wrong idea. So the initial version I took, these were the, were the oral polio vaccine, the Sabin vaccine, and that created immunity polio, but it contributed more polio to the water supply.
So then we had to turn around as kids and come back and get the injectable, the IPV Salk vaccine.
And that seemed to be a better solution.
But there's two things that came with the injectable. One was the cutter incident where because the virus was grown on monkey kidney cells that some of the kidney cells clumped. And so during the inactivation with formaldehyde, the virus wasn't killed. So some people were injected with a polio virus. This was terrible. And so it actually caused polio in a relatively large number of people. Sadly, some were paralyzed from the vaccine.
Almost like, you know, initially people dying of smallpox from the vaccine or from the variolation.
And then the second thing that happened, and this happened during the era where I took it as a kid, was contamination with SV40, simian virus 40, a cancer promoting segments of DNA. The same type of contamination has happened with Pfizer Moderna in the COVID shots. Well, you know, a large number of people received IPV contaminated with SV40. There was an Institute of Medicine report and the report concluded we can't possibly know how much cancer in people my age is going to be due to these shots.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So guys, SV40 stands for simian monkey virus. And those kidney cells, Dr. McColl is just talking about these vaccines inoculated or grown in these kidney cells of a monkey. This, this virus gets transmitted into the vial, the vaccine vial that gets transmitted into you. And so the, this particular genetic material promotes cancer growth. So that's. I just had a patient yesterday. There's two fairly young pastors here in Lubbock with stage four cancer and they were asking me, you know, why is cancer on, on the rise? There was an article just recently about a, I think it was a 500% increase in colorectal cancers in the young age group, less than 50 years old, even down to 10 year old. But. And it's multifactorial, of course, but this SV40, as Dr. McCollough just said, also in the COVID 19 vaccine, and maybe we can talk a little bit about that, just in general, the immune system, I mean, cancer should be detected and killed by the immune system, as should germs.
So when we go in early, especially this just childhood vaccine schedule now, and we start doing things that alter the natural immune response with the thought of we're helping it, but unintended consequences, we get a dysregulated immune response that can lead to more environmental allergies, food allergies, neurodevelopmental issues, which is an immune inflammatory response in the brain, and potentially cancer rates. So kind of talk about the immune dysregulation potential, especially with the modern vaccine.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: Schedule, when the immune system is stimulated with so many different antigens at once. You know, at a midpoint in young childhood, there are about 16 different vaccines that is recommended for the children to get. And sometimes they just get it on the same day.
You can't imagine giving 16 drugs to somebody at one time. The immune system has to go on overdrive. There's all kinds of opportunities for misadventure, autoimmunity, immune paradoxical immune suppression. I mean, one of the best examples is a prospective randomized trial of the flu shot in young children who don't need the flu shot. And it's a prospective double blind, randomized placebo controlled trial. And the flu shot clearly results in these kids getting more common colds. So the immune system must be either suppressed or misdirected in some way. Now, with the COVID 19 vaccines, data from University of Pittsburgh, Singh and colleagues have shown this that the spike protein produced in large quantities after the vaccine, we also get it after the infection with SARS CoV2, it appears to suppress the tumor suppressor systems, p53 and BRCA. These actually keep cancers in check or actually snuff out cancer cells. So I'm greatly concerned, as you are, that people loaded with the spike protein, in fact can have unchecked cancers. My last patient was a young man who's 28 who had, you know, already advancing non seminoma testicular cancer. You know, seeing cancers at such a young age. Ben, you can't believe this. I had someone text me and say, Dr. McCullough, my, my daughter, who's in high school, took the COVID shots at age 16.
She died before graduation at age 18 of widely metastatic ovarian cancer.
I've never heard of fatal ovarian cancer in an 18 year old girl. Never heard of it.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yes and there's reports like that around the country.
13 year old with stage 4 colon cancer. I think it was a 10 year old similar out of UCLA.
Just devastating.
You know Deion Sanders I know recently reported aggressive kind of late stage bladder cancer. I think he's in his 50s.
So yeah, there's been a real uptick.
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[00:33:19] Speaker A: I want to stay on track here. I love the tangents though.
You do get into kind of the controversial even mentioned this name and you're an anti vaxxer but Dr. Andrew Wakefield, I've had him on the show before and you that you dedicate a chapter in the book to that but kind of for people that don't know, give a little summary because the chapter 18, Andrew Wakefield versus the vaccine cartel is what author John Leake entitled that chapter. So discuss that a little bit.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: You know for every seminal discovery, usually the first person who gets something in publication, they're smeared, they're slandered, they're discredited. Sometimes their careers are ended for making the seminal observation. This is very important. So I mentioned Semmelweis who made the observation, we should wash our hands to reduce infection.
His career was ended with that research.
And then Sir Austin Bradford Hill and Dr. Dowley in the UK made the observation that smoking caused lung cancer.
Dolly was smeared, slandered, discredited, all by the tobacco industry.
Yet he was right. And now Andrew Wakefield, who a gastroenterological surgeon, academician in London, makes the observation with parents that when the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are combined, mmr. And this happened after I was born.
But when the MMR was given to children, some children developed a syndrome of lymphoid hyperplasia in the abdomen and they developed features of autism.
Wakefield was just describing this syndrome. It was published in Lancet, and, you know, over the course of. Over a decade, it took a decade of constant attacks and people trying to debunk him, discredit him, slander him, smear him.
Authors were peeled off the paper. Then after a decade, the paper was retracted, but it was never retracted because of the data and the observations.
The accusations were that he had a conflict of interest.
And, you know, in. In Wakefield is a young, dashing British physician, handsome, you know, he. He was for a While dating Elle McPherson, you know, a supermodel.
And, you know, we believe, John Leake believes, and we know Wakefield pretty well, we believe that this cartel of vaccine companies and those kind of in collaboration with them, they felt that Wakefield was so dangerous and that his observations were so correct that they had to destroy him.
Just like Semmelweis.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: Well, it reminds me of that quote, which I shouldn't bring it up because I don't remember it, but something about the truth initially is totally resisted and, you know, made fun of, basically. But eventually it's taken as, oh, yeah, it's an obvious fact, kind of like with tobacco, totally resisted. Doctors recommended smoking, actually. And now it's just obvious. You ask anybody on the street, does tobacco and contribute to cancer? It's. It's widely accepted. So it's like we're in this transition from complete denial and let's, you know, smear everybody. We're transitioning, but I feel like the people, the general public, the patients are way ahead of the curve. In fact, there was a study and I believe, again, Focal Points newsletter about.
I think it was less than 40% of parents, expectant parents, are planning to follow CDC schedule.
The people have figured this out.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Well, did you see what the American Academy of Pediatrics the response was to that?
[00:37:17] Speaker A: No, I didn't.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: Oh, Ben, it's stunning. No, this came out 60% of parents and young parents, they're not going to follow this whole schedule. They're starting to be concerned about vaccine safety. So the academy comes out and says that's it.
We think we should take away all forms of non medical exemptions. Anybody who wants a philosophical religious exemption that shouldn't go through and they're going to press the case with each state.
So we're at a point of tension here on vaccinology. Now vaccinology, Ben, has always been contentious from a public health perspective. You know, towards the end of the 19th century, you know, in Boston and London, people were put in jail if they didn't take the smallpox vaccine. Can you imagine being put in jail if you didn't take the MMR or take the COVID shot? But people, this has happened before and it led to, you know, essentially on the streets protests called the Anti Vaccination League in the uk. We chronicle this.
That's what it's come to.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: And we are, we're at this crossroads. And even when RFK made the recommendation to pull the childhood vaccine, pull COVID 19 vaccine recommendation down, AAP I believe, sued the administration or sued RFK for that move.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Same kind of mindset that's Covid vaccination in healthy pregnant women and young children. They can still take it if they want to. It's just not on the recommended list anymore.
And yet, you know, an academic society is suing them. Why would they be so invested in this kind of brand new genetic technology that has no supportive large scale prospective randomized placebo controlled trials in those groups never been demonstrated to reduce COVID 19 with the recent variants or spread or reduce mortality.
So you can tell that there's this irrational faith based belief in this. It's not based on science, but people do feel so strongly about it that they'll, you know, write editorials and launch lawsuits against the federal government.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: Yep. And again the people have figured this out in, in large part to books similar to this one. Guys, again want to just show you the book of vaccines, Mythology, ideology and reality.
One of the stories that you talked about or and John Lake talks about in this book and I want you to share and it's stories like this that we need to, I would say we as you know, CDC and other organizations, the, the government needs to say, yeah, I'm sorry we really messed up on this one but it's Dr. Pauline's child. Dr. Pauline, what happened, not only what happened to this poor baby, but the response and the other vaccine injured and the whole vaccine injury compensation program but share that story, speak a little bit to that compensation program and how that could be improved.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Well, 1986, because of increasing lawsuits against the vaccine companies, they went to the government and Congress and HHS wrote the 1986 Vaccine Injury Compensation act, which granted immunity to the vaccine companies so they wouldn't be sued.
And they said, listen, if people have been injured from the vaccines, the government will have a, have a program to adjudicate these cases and provide compensation. So they conducted in 2007, 2008, what's called the omnibus program or trial. There was about 5,000 cases where parents thought their kids were vaccine injured. One of them was Jonathan Poling. He's a neurologist at Johns Hopkins.
His daughter Hannah took a whole bevy of vaccines all at once and within a few months developed autism.
She had an underlying genetic mitochondrial disorder, which may be common, we don't know, but she clearly developed autism. And so he publishes a case report. As a Johns Hopkins neurologist, this is as airtight as you can possibly get.
And so he's one of the test cases for this group of 5,000.
And so what the government lawyers do is they kind of put him off to the side and they make a deal with polling. They actually settle with him outside the omnibus, then they dismiss the other test cases, and Everybody, the other 5,000 are just thrown out of court. They get nothing.
And so the point of this is the Vaccine Injury Compensation act is not fair.
The program is a sham, and the US Government teamed up with the vaccine companies to allow harm to be done with the public. And there's nothing people can do once the needle is in the arm. There's nothing you can do about it.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just unbelievable.
We're kind of getting to the end. Dr. McCullen, I want to respect your time. I wanted to maybe briefly touch on sids, but also want to kind of touch on, because I know you probably, you're one of the leading medical providers maybe in the world on these COVID 19 vaccine injured and the circulating spike protein and just, you know, trying to measure that level, how do we interpret that and clinically, what do we do and how much of this is kind of a guessing game, but maybe we'll spend more time on that sids. I'll just say, guys, and you can read in the book and other places, but there's a correlation timeline wise, just like with the COVID 19 vaccine, you can see a vast majority. I think it's close to 70% of these SIDS death or within a day, 2 or 3 of vaccination. So that's not random.
That's a correlation of time. That's very indicative of causality.
So if you want to comment on that, Dr. McCullough, if we have time. If you have time. But also do want to touch on the this spike protein and what to do about it in folks, because I was just at a conference in Oxford, Mississippi this weekend giving a talk. I had five separate people come up to me with family members, husbands, children, men. These were happened to be all men, victims in their 40s with myocardial infarction with no other risk factors, no family history, but took the COVID shot.
So both those there for you SIDS and then the circulating spike protein, long COVID vaccine injured. What do we do about it?
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Well, sudden infant death syndrome, defined as a death of a healthy baby under age 1.
The vast majority come right after a big bundle of these vaccines was shown in a paper using VAERS data from Miller. So I think that's convincing.
Now, a recent randomized trial observing children who were born prematurely and they were given the vaccine schedule in the hospital so it could be observed versus not giving the vaccine schedule. It was clear the kids who took the vaccines then they had apnea, they stopped breathing, the nurses had to revive them. Well, let me tell you what if that child was at home and they stopped breathing and the parents didn't observe them in the middle of the night, that would have been a SIDS death. So I think that recent trial is showing us that the vaccines are almost certainly a determinant for sids.
And I know Representative Burrell Hamade in Louisiana, she actually proposed legislation that the medical examiners consider the vaccine record when they examine a SIDS baby. And the coroners and medical examiners strongly rejected that.
So again, this is this religious faith in vaccines. They actually don't want to see the vaccine record. They don't want to see this reality. People need to understand that. Now I think I personally think vaccines are far safer when they're given later in life and probably more context dependent. And you know, I've taken all the vaccines possible except for the COVID shots. And you know, and I just think that, you know, we've become a lot more vaccine risk aware. Now what we're doing for Covid is we're actually measuring antibodies against the spike protein. We get, you can get it through Quest or CPL or LabCorp. I like the LabCorp assay, which uses the Roche Alexis platform and it lays out a number of quantitatively of antibodies to the spike protein. It's a proxy for how much spike protein has been in the body from the infection or the vaccine. And you get a number from 0 to 25,000. So anything less than 1,000 in the published studies, in my experience, very low risk, very low risk. You can be assured, like my mother in law took two COVID 19 vaccines, didn't have a single problem.
You know, it's been perfectly fine. I'm carefully observing her. We checked mama's antibodies and it was like 200. I said hallelujah, she's below that thousand range. But you know, I have several patients now in a research program where we, we measure the spike protein in the blood, not just the antibodies. And I can tell you when the antibodies are over 5,000 bend. Almost certainly they have circulating spike protein in the blood and in the tissues. More like 5, 10,000, 20,000. That's where we start seeing heart damage and blood clots.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: Is there enough data yet or experience, clinical experience to say if you see the antibody level greater than 2000 and you implement some, some treatment therapies like ultimate spike detox from the wellness company over time, have you been able to track that and see a core correlation over time of those antibody levels coming down or do these antibodies stay sustained for a long time?
[00:47:36] Speaker B: No, the antibodies come down, Ben, just like they do after the infection. If the spike protein is no longer there stimulating them, they will reliably come down. You want to look for about a 20% drop in that antibody number because the antibody is going to lag in time afterwards. You want to see that 20% drop at about nine months or so.
And multiple papers now published using this approach. Nattokinase, bromelain, curcumin and some other enzymes too. But probably the best combination product is the ultimate spike detox and wellness company for about a year. We have a patient we've published from my clinic in the peer reviewed literature and he had a very nice drop and resolution of his syndrome. I've seen this clinically in my practice. If you can get these antibodies down, you know, stay away from any more infections, certainly no more vaccines. Patients do reliably get better. The myocarditis resolves, the blood clots clear up, the neuropathies improve. We use other drugs and other strategies to help. But I do think this natural approach with wellness company Ultimate Spike Detox is fundamental.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: Yep.
Okay, Dr. McCullough, thank you so much everybody. Again, the book Vaccines, Mythology, ideology and reality. Highly recommended. And the first book John leak is author and Dr. McCall, the co author on this one as well, the courage to face COVID 19. Both excellent for your library because guys, your kids, your grandkids, your great grandkids, depending on what book they're reading and who's writing the history books, you've got to have, you know, a library full of the non stamp, the non mainstream narrative if you want the truth. So Dr. McCullough, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for all you've done throughout the pandemic and beyond.
[00:49:19] Speaker B: Thank you.
All right.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: All right guys. So Dr. McCullough had to go see some patients. I'll wrap this up.
Just really want to encourage y' all to get on substack. And John Lake, the co author on this book, the lead author actually on Dr. McCullough's two books he writes for Focal Points, which is a newsletter on substack. I just took a few screenshots before we jumped on the show today. I'm going to read some to you because this is the type of information you can get on substack. Dr. McCullough and John leaks focal points.
The focal points is what you would look up on substack. Here's one recent article 8th study confirms MRNA shots increase risk of infection we discussed that some during our interview today but this particular study, again this is the eighth one that's confirming the same out outcome.
New study of 1745 healthcare workers finds MRNA boosters raise the risk of influenza like illness by up to 70% and increases work work days lost by 50%.
Another article recently on the Focal Points JAMA Modeling Study Claims COVID 19 Vaccines Save Lives 7 Threats to Validity so John Lake and Peter McCullough basically debunked the JAMA study by flawed assumptions, uncontrolled confounding factors and institutional bias.
That that was a really good article of the thought by John Lake. And here's another one.
MRNA injections induce severe long lasting genetic disruption linked to cancer and chronic disease. Landmark study reveals COVID 19 vaccine severely disrupt the expression of thousands of genes triggering mitochondrial failure, immune reprogramming and oncogenic activity Innovation. You can again read the all these studies. I'm pulling these right off the focal points on substack and I mentioned the sunlight study earlier and this was from a few weeks ago. On the focal points you can go find this sunlight prevent or excuse me penetrates the human body improving mitochondrial function and vision. You know we talk about sun all the time is one of the core ancestral techniques to induce health.
I think I've quoted before Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book the Clot Thickens. You can go find that interview on our website archive page. I interviewed Dr. Kendrick, but in that book he talks about sunshine, regular sun exposure, sunbathers. They've looked at studies on sunbathers, average of 10 years added to their longevity by consistent sun exposure. But back to this one.
This particular study showed just 15 minutes of fully clothed infrared sunlight exposure triggered systemic effects and measurable improvements in vision, even when the eyes were completely covered.
Interesting article. Another article from the same source. The focal points, they're looking at VAERS data just from 2025. So the past past seven months, 305 deaths just from COVID shot reported to vers just in 2025. Anyways, that's just a little sampling.
You know, guys, it's hard to overstate the impact that Dr. Mulla has had on our country and really the world as far as being a vocal leader in bringing all this data. It's so hard. There's so many studies published every single day.
And just because something's published doesn't mean it's necessarily accurate. There's all kinds of potential flaws with the studies and different biases.
So having a source that you can trust is awesome.
But also just knowing kind of from this side of the table, as a physician, it's very, very difficult to kind of go against the company line, so to speak.
It reminds me of Dr. Paul Merrick, senior physician, the most published, I believe critical care physician has written textbooks. He lectures, used to lecture on this, on this topic of pulmonary icu, critical care protocols and techniques and different subject matters. So highly respected.
And Dr. Merrick years ago started doing a vitamin C protocol in the icu. Published on it because it had some positive benefit and it was only 1.5 grams of intravenous vitamin C every six hours. That's a very small dose in terms of what experienced clinicians in the integrative healthcare realm will use. 10 grams, 25 grams, 50 grams, even up to 100 grams in certain situations. That's been well documented, well published for decades now, all the way back to the 1950s. Dr. Kleiner with the K was the first one to really use this high dose IV and intramuscular vitamin C. Just fascinating topic. I actually interviewed Dr. Tom Levy, the Levy years ago. You can go find that interview also where he went through a lot of Dr. Kleiner's research.
So in the acute setting, especially extremely sick hospitalized patients, septic shock, which is in the ICU setting, mortality rates are very high.
But Dr. Merrick found benefit and then during COVID he utilized this protocol along with other things and saw great benefit in and you can hear more of Dr. Merrick's story. I didn't actually interview him, but his colleague interviewed him. Pierre Corey with a K. You can look that interview up on the website under Resources. Click on Podcast. There's a drop down menu. You can search Dr. Corey's name or just scroll back. It was earlier this year and Dr. Corey tells Dr. Merrick so story and basically how he was forced out of the hospital, forced to retire.
So highly credentialed, highly respected, the most, you know, published physicians in their fields, Dr. McCullough, Dr. Merrick and yet still the system can just kind of push him off to the side and just ignore them.
So it's difficult situation we find ourselves in in modern medicine.
So I would encourage you to continue to get educated here and other places. Another great source on Substack I would highly recommend especially if you're a physician, nurse practitioner, healthcare provider for sure you need to add this to your reading list. It's on my reading list for any doctor that calls our clinic or emails me and asks for resources sources to have continuing medical education outside the pharmaceutical based CMEs.
And that is on substack. It's called the Forgotten side of Medicine and the author on that sub stack, it's basically a ghostwriter name but it's the Midwestern doctor, he's anonymous, he didn't want his name to be attached. But his articles are amazing, highly reference, very very well referenced articles.
The articles on DMSO in particular just fascinating the hundreds and hundreds of published peer reviewed studies on DMSO's benefit especially in neurological injuries like stroke and neurologic traumas. So Substack's a great place to have some alternative viewpoints.
Okay guys, again the website we keep these podcasts curated for you on there for your benefit searchable so we highly encourage you.
There's a whole topic drop down menu on vaccinations. We've interviewed the authors of Dissolving Illusions, another great book about the history of vaccines and the data behind these infectious disease mortality rates and the resolution of that mortality rate.
And we've interviewed Neil Miller, that Dr. McCullough referenced some his studies on SIDS.
We've interviewed Dr. Paul Thomas, one of the in my opinion best pediatricians ever practiced medicine in the United States and his book and his website about vaccines, National Vaccine Information center is another great resource.
Barbara Lo Fisher, we've had her on a number of times. Sherry Tinpenny, we've had her on.
So all of these folks are under the vaccine topic index.
Dr. Wakefield, we've had him on a few times.
So you can get very well informed and to make the best decision for you and your family. Get all the facts. So I encourage you to go and utilize those podcasts and other subjects too. Cardiovascular disease, cancer, agriculture, culture, all kinds of topics on there.
So we do this show to just try to continue to bring some knowledge that has been not widely disseminated in medical schools or the the mainstream media.
All right guys, last thing I want to say, I gotta wrap this thing up, but Oxford, Mississippi was there recently. It need the Cure. I had a great time there.
I had to kind of speed through my cardiovascular disease heart attack discussion. So if you're listening, I know a lot of y' all at the conference said you do listen to the podcast.
You can go see the full lecture a little more thorough probably on the website on the members only section under education courses. Just look for heart disease cholesterol and I go into a little more depth on that.
Also we have a cardiovascular disease cholesterol topic on the dropdown on the podcast page on the website. So y' all utilize those sources.
Guys, if you're new to the show, we have a wellness program online. Veritas wellnessmember.com is a website 29amonth. Get you access to weekly small group meetings via Zoom. Monthly Q&As with me, multiple different groups, courses, recipes, meal plans, workout routines, the ability to do one on one consultations if you need to and want to.
Blood panel. The Veritas blood panel, which is looking for lit fuses or inflammat inflammation. There's signs in the body that your mitochondria is not working right and that blood panel can help identify that. So that's available. If you have a quest lab anywhere near you, you can purchase that blood panel. It's probably $2,000 at most places and it's about, I think we charge 400 and that comes with a one hour visit with your navigator to go through it.
So we try to provide all these resources for Yalls benefit. If you're new to the show, I encourage you to check that out. All right guys, we'll see you next week. Thank you for joining. I'm Dr. Ben Edwards, you're the Cure.
