Quantum Life (Replay) | Steve McVey

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of you're the cure. I'm Dr. Ben Edwards. Well, we have wrapped up 2025, last show of the year. I was looking back over the year in one of my favorite shows, Steve McVeigh, Quantum Life. We're going to replay that today. I think it's one of the most important interviews I did this past year. And I sure look forward to doing more interviews in 26, but wanted to just recap and look back over 25. The reason Steve stuck out to me is because after 10 years conventional medicine and 10 or 12 or 13 now years of non conventional medicine, integrative medicine, it's become so clear. I'm 100 convinced it's the invisible realm, the quantum realm, the spiritual realm that impacts the physical realm the most. Not to deny the physical things do impact, obviously, but the power of our heart beliefs, the power of our thinking, our words spoken that come out of what we believe. I just can't reiterate enough, guys, how important it is to walk in the truth, walk in the light as he is in the light, when that truth can penetrate your cells, your cell membrane, your mitochondria, your DNA, your genes, our thoughts and heart beliefs impact all those things greatly. More than organic food and movement and great hydration, Actually, I believe so. Just wanted to bring Steve McVeigh and re back on and replay that show from earlier this year. It was one of more popular shows. But I don't do things to be popular. I do things that I think will benefit you the most because I do believe you were designed by God to fix yourself. You're the cure. That's the name of the show. It's not a gimmick. It's the truth. You're an amazingly designed, I don't even want to say piece of machinery or engineering. It's way beyond that. Divine intelligence far exceeds artificial intelligence di over AI any day of the week. And God's given us a little instruction book and it talks in there about guarding your heart because out of it flow all issues of life and the power. Life and death is in your tongue. And may you be in health as your soul prospers. So we need to understand about who we are. Identity. We started identity back in 24. It's a big deal, guys. We're a spirit being housed in the flesh with a soul. You need to know the difference between all three. Steve McVeigh is going to talk about some of that today. Hope you enjoy the show. Look forward to seeing you on 2026. We've got a great show today. We're going to continue on this journey we've been on really for the past year of going deeper. Not to ignore the natural. God created the natural. He created time and space. He created all these physical molecules. I mean the wind's blowing right now in West Texas out here about 50 miles an hour and there's a lot of dirt in the air. If that dirt got in my lung, there's a physical contamination in lung that could have a physical consequence. So we're not ignoring the physical. If, if this high powered wind would knock down a power line out in the alley and I went back there and grabbed that live wire, the law of electricity that is going to kick in and my flesh is going to be impacted by that. If I jumped off this two story building, my physical cells are going to take a whack and possibly a, a terminal injury. And this is difficult, I know, for a society like ours. Our culture trained us in left brain, rational, black and white, Newtonian physics particles. And it's easy that with your five senses to get a hold of this, this part of things. But what if, guys, what if 96% of your physical cells, disease symptoms, the influence on it was from an invisible world, from the quantum world, from the spiritual world, the supernatural world, whatever you want to call it. And I believe scripture is pretty clear. We just didn't quite see. So today's show, my goal with today's show is to continue to open the eyes and clear up our vision so we can see deeper and more clearly that we're a spirit being housed in the flesh. There's an interaction at this intersection of the physical and the spiritual which is right here. And people walk into these doors of our clinic with physical complaints. And I had a patient Today, Crohn's disease, 25 plus years, been on every single medication you can think of. They've been wanting to cut his colon out for a long time. He is full of physical symptoms. But it all started with what he called the dark years. Three death or close, close people in his family and friends that died, a traumatic car accident and some other things. You can't ignore that. You can't ignore these major events in life that create an emotional and a thought and a belief. There's this interplay, guys. So I've, I've asked Steve McVeigh to come on the show today. He's written a number of books. We'll talk about a few of them. In the main one, hopefully we get to right here, quantum Life. And guys, I know sometimes quantum, we start talking about thoughts and thinking and we get a little nervous about new age or about, you know, some doctrine that maybe you didn't grow up with, name it and claim it, different things like that. But it is clear in the scientific literature our thoughts and our words impact our DNA, impact every cell of our body and there's just no way to get around it. So as I've said before, I believe you'll hit a ceiling in your healing if all you do is focus on symptom management, diet, exercise and hydration. The three pillars, let's do it all. Not ignore the physical, but definitely don't ignore what I believe is the more powerful and impactful. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he is Absolutely true. Steve McVeigh, welcome to the show. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Thank you. Glad to be here with you on your program. [00:06:22] Speaker A: Well, thank you. I actually had, I think it was a listener, not even a patient, just one of our audience listeners. Send me an email and recommend send a podcast you had been on. I forget the guys. I think it was something about talking about God with tacos or. Yeah, heard that podcast and then dove in a little more and then actually went to my library here. Someone had sent me Grace Walk a long time ago and I'd forgotten about it. Actually hadn't read it. I get sent a lot of books, but I went, got that off the shelf, started reading it, ordered Quantum Live, started reading it and thought, wow, this is right on end point in line with a lot of what we've been learning over the past year. I've been bringing to my audience. Just recently had Dr. Jim Richards on. He wrote a book called the Immutable Law of the Seed. Sowing and reaping it lines right up you bring such the science piece of it for those who are so intellectually minded and want proof and evidence. You know, there's this quantum physics piece that you talk about in the book that I really hope to get to. But let's rewind and start with the audience. Just introduce yourself to the audience. Kind of where you came from, how you got to where you are now. I know that's a long story. May take up the whole show. Just getting to where you are now. We can do part two if we need to. But maybe these quantum leaps you talked about in that other podcast and what led to that first book being published. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Well, you know, you have mentioned two of my. The two books you mentioned are bookends on the last three decades of my life. Pretty much Because Grace Walk was the first book I wrote. That book was published in 1995. So that book's been. Been around for 30 years now, and it's in like 17 languages, and it's got a lot of mileage on it. But then the Quantum books, and I've written Quantum Life, Quantum Prayer, and Quantum Faith. And the quantum books are the newest things that I have been focusing on and teaching. And as is often the case with. With authors or speakers, if you look at, you know, the. The books that I've written over the many. Over the years, you will see the progression and the growth in my own life and the shift in my own understanding. And let me start by saying that if we don't change, we really have no right to say we're growing. And so I want to. I want to really press that as we begin with the viewers, that if you're not willing to change, whether you know it or not, you've just confessed that you don't want to grow because all growing things change. Now, as you said, there have been quantum leaps. Will use the word, and they really were quantum leaps in my own life over these. Over all of my adult life, actually. I'll give you the elevator summary version on the front end, and then we can go into depth at any points or markers along the way that you want. I grew up in a Christian family. My parents were Christians, and I went to church all of my life. I was a believer since I was a young boy. And I preached my first sermon at 16 years old. And I went to school and began to prepare because I wanted to be a pastor. And I became a pastor of the local church at 19 years old. And I served in that capacity as a local church pastor for almost 21 years until. Until 1994. And since then I've left the pastorate. I was 40 then. I'm 70 now, so it's been 30 years. I left the pastor and I travel and write and, and have an itinerant ministry now. But when I was at that church in 1995 with a book. Well, actually, 94, I wrote the book. It came out in 95, I was pastor of a church in Atlanta, Georgia. And again, I'm going to make this very short. Those that have read my book, Grace Walk, will get the biographical information and you'll see how it lines up with the. With the biblical truth that I would come to understand. But it was a. It was a church that had struggled for years before I got there. It declined in attendance and in every way. That you could measure. The church had declined. And when I went there, I'd always felt successful in the places I had been, and I expected the same there. But it didn't turn out that way. The church continued to decline, to go down in numbers. I was a Southern Baptist, and all of you who are watching that are Southern Baptist know that Sunday school attendance, church attendance, baptisms, that's the name of the game. That's the metrics that are used. And so I didn't have it there. And I began to get more and more frustrated until finally, on October 6, 1990, I found myself lying on my face in the middle of the night crying. And I said, God, if this is what ministry is, I want out. And I said, and the truth is, if this is the Christian life, it's overrated. Might be good to get me into heaven, but in the meantime, I don't see the big deal because I'm not experiencing that kind of abundant life that I read about in the Bible. And so on October 6, 1990, as I was lying there in the middle of the night, I literally was crying. Tears were streaming on my cheeks. It was 2 in the morning. And I said, God, I've given my whole life to serve you. I've been preaching since I was 16. I've been a pastor since I was 19. I've given my whole life to serve you. And anger. I kind of shouted out in anger toward God. And I said, what do you want from me? And I'll tell you it. It came as clear into my mind, God speaking me, as if it had been audible. And what I heard was, steve, I just want you. I just want you. And that. That in and of itself was a mind bender for me because I thought that I grew up in church where we were taught we're saved to serve. So I thought that the reason for my faith was what I could do for God. And I. On that night, I began to realize that God didn't want a maid, he wanted a bride. Someone with whom he could share his love. And that was a turning point. Again, there are a lot of details I won't get into now, but that was the turning point. It was the night of brokenness, as I call it. And some of my charismatic friends don't like the word brokenness, and it pushed back against it. But let me make sure when I use the word, you understand my definition. Brokenness is that condition at which we recognize and give up all recognize and give up on all our own abilities to manage our lives. It's when we come to the end of self resources, total surrender, we let go and we say, I can't do it. And back to that night on October 6th in 1990, I said, God, before that night was over, I said, this is your ministry and your church. I said, this is your gig. If you want to do something good with it that will be affirmed, then it's on you. If you want it to die, it's on you. I said, I'll give you all the credit and I'm going to give you all the blame because I am resigning. I'll keep serving, but I'm going to resign. And the results are up to you. And so that, as I say, that was a real turning point for me. In the weeks to come, I would attend a conference where I heard some people speak about the the message that Hudson Taylor called the Exchange life. And that message was a wonderfully liberating message for me because it showed me that my identity is one who is defined by Jesus Christ. Now we can talk about this when we get into it, even in the quantum world. Quantum entanglement is when two particles are joined in such a way that even though they might be light years apart from each other, the one defines the other. And if you rotate one in a counterclockwise, the other goes in a counterclockwise direction. And distance has nothing to do with it. They're one in nature, even though they're individualized. And so that's the way it is with Christ. And I would say to those that are watching, if I could bring a message to you from that first era in my life, it would be this at first phase. It would be this, Christ is not in your life. Christ is your life. Now, of course, I don't mean he's really not in your life. Of course he is. But it's not enough to say Christ is in my life because there's a dichotomy when you say that Christ is in my life. Who is my. Who's the my you're talking about? Paul said, I've been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. But the life that I now live in this physical life, I live by the faith of the Son of God. We are defined, we might say it this way. And I'm talking to your churchgoing Christian folks now. You don't live for Jesus. He never asked us to do that. But Christ lives his life through us. He lives the life, not us. So that was the Exchange life era of my life, and that was the time When I began to understand our identity and that as he is, so are we in this world, I began to understand that we don't become righteous by doing things. But as First Corinthians 1:30 says, he is our righteousness. I began to understand that we don't live by religious rules. In fact, Romans 7:5 tells us that sinful passions are stirred up by religious rules. We don't live by rules. Listen to the. This one is. Some people may twinge or grimace when I make this statement, but let me explain. I'll make the statement, we don't live by the Bible. Now, growing up as a good Baptist boy, we called ourselves People of the Book. We said, we live by the Bible. No, we do not. The Bible is a road map that points us to the destination, and the destination is Christ. We live by the life of the indwelling Christ. We don't live by the Bible. The Pharisees tried to do that, and Jesus rebuked them when he said, you search the Scripture because you think there you're going to find life, but you won't come to me so that you can have life. Life is in him, not the Bible. So that when I begin to learn that our identity in Christ, freedom from the law, you know, that we. That the old person that I always kept trying to improve, never needed to improve because he never existed. I am St. Steve because of him. That's what the Bible says 63 times. It calls us saints. But in the church world that I grew up in, we spend our lives rededicating ourselves and. And promising God that we try harder to do better. And I'm telling you, quit rededicating yourself. I'm telling everybody that's watching, listening, quit rededicating yourself. God doesn't need your promises. Come on, let's get real. If rededicating your life and promising God you're going to try harder to do better worked, why have you done it for years and years and years and years? Why have you had to keep repeating it? You know the definition of insanity? It doesn't work. So there's my exchange life phase. So I'll defer back to you. And if you want to unpack or ask questions on that, there are two more phases. I'll talk about my theological shift and my quantum shift, but that was my first gray shift. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Okay? And that's a big one, guys. That's a real big one. And I know we've kind of touched on some of this in previous shows, but if you're Hearing this for the first time, I'd encourage you to dig in, get the book, grace walk. There's other great resources, but that's a huge. I feel like if you don't get these foundational pieces, then trying to stack some of this for other stuff without that foundation, you're always. So this identity piece, put off the old man, put on the new. We died. Yeah, I'm in 100 agreement. It's not my life because. Because I died buried with him and I can do nothing. I'm a conduit. Holy Spirit, show me and boom. He just flows through. Flows through. Now I'm of course I'm not perfect in it. When too much of that old man, old habits, old mindsets, old memory, muscle memory tries to kick in. But I got to recognize that, take captive that line it up, renew my mind. And when my opinion and my thought doesn't line up with God's, I need to change my thinking to line up with the truth. And that's where we're going to keep going. So Steve, as you continued on your journey, some more aha. Moments where your old thinking didn't line up or you got more revelation and a deeper understanding. Let's keep going. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Well, I will say that stage in my life when I began to understand again what Hudson Taylor called the exchange life, some have called it the deeper life. Some have called it the higher life. Some have called it the crucified life. Watchman, he called it the normal Christian life. It doesn't matter what you call it. It just means the life I'm talking about is the life where you, you cease from your struggle to live for God and you begin to allow him to animate your life and, and he lives his life through you. It's not hard. Jesus said, my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Take my yoke on you. So that was, that was such a liberating, freeing, wonderful time for me and I loved it. And for. In my 40s, you know, for at least a decade, I crab traveled across the world. I've been on six continents sharing that wonderful message of who we are in Christ, I found my. Now let me go back to what I said in the beginning. You're not going to grow if you're not willing to change. So after some years of just reveling in the truth that I learned in the exchange Life world. And again, you guys, I know that's an esoteric word phrase that some of you don't know, but you can look it up. It was coined by Hudson Taylor. But after some years passed, I noticed that I had kept saying a certain statement every time I would speak, every time I would teach a conference, every time I would be interviewed on TV or radio or whatever. I would. I would. I didn't plan to, but I found myself repeatedly making the statement, no matter how big you imagine God's love to be, it's bigger. And I wouldn't plan to say it, but time and time and time and time again, at some point when I would be speaking to a group, those words would come out of my mouth. And it was one day after a conference that I'd gone back to the hotel and they dropped me off, and I was in the room, and I was thinking about that, that day, that the sessions of the conference that day. And my mind went to me having said, no matter how much you imagine God's love to be, it's bigger. And when my mind went to that, I heard the Spirit speak again in my thoughts and say, do you really believe that? And I thought, well, that's kind of a. What kind of question is that? Of course I believe it. But I could tell by, you know, when. When the Spirit speaks to you, you. You got a lot of understanding in a few words. And I knew. I knew what the question really meant was, do you want to understand the full implications of that? Do you want to plumb the depths of that statement that no matter how big God's love is, you think it is, it's bigger? I said, yes, I do. Yeah. And I said, yes, I do. Now, that was what began to open the door and lead me into my second shift. And this was a theological shift. The first was a doctrinal shift because it was the doctrine related to grace. The second. This shift was a theological shift because it was a doctor. It was a teaching. Theology is the study of God. Doctrine and theology are not exactly the same. Theology zeros in on God and his nature. And I'm saying, no matter how big you imagine God's love to be, it's bigger. So then it kind of makes me. I found myself at the place where Lucy in the Chronicles of Narnia found herself at one point when she said to Aslan, the Christ figure, she said, ashlyn, you have grown. And he said, no, I have not grown, child. You're the one who's growing. And every time you see me, it will seem that I have grown. I know exactly what that means. And some of you watching this know, too. God doesn't grow. God is God. But if I Make the statement, I have a bigger God now than I used to. You know what I mean? It's in my perception. So the. The Spirit said to me at that moment, are you open to more information? Are you open to go deeper? And I said, yes. Now be careful. I give you this caveat. Be careful when you ask God to take you further, especially if you find yourself where I was on October 6, 1990, when I prayed and said, God, whatever it takes, I give myself to you. I want to know you. I want you to do in me, with me, to me, through me, anything that you want to do. And I'm willing for whatever that takes. Total surrender. Be careful when you do that and when you pray like that, because God's listening. [00:23:42] Speaker A: Amen. [00:23:44] Speaker B: And he takes it seriously. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Yes, he does. [00:23:48] Speaker B: So when I said in that beginning of that second phase, yeah, I want to go further, it's like, okay. And as God does. Quantum scientists would call it synchronicity, but I call it the Spirit at work is God does. Information began to come into my field of view. And I began to read and. And even become friends with some of the people that are now friends. But they influence. They influenced my life. Or Paul Young with the Shack and Baxter Krueger and some of his. In his writings and others that, that, that. That really seemed to have a. They. They understood grace, but they seemed to, I'm going to say this way, take it further than I did. Because they postulated the idea of a God that was different from the God I'd grown up with and in some ways even different from the God I'd been teaching with the grace message, as they call it. And that big shift came down to this. Ready? No matter how big you imagine God's love to be, it's bigger. And he began to show me what that means. And I began to study things like the atonement and when I was growing up, the crucifixion of Jesus. Everybody understood. And what we believed was, well, God loves us, but we're all sinners. And God's justice demands that there be a payment for sin, there be punishment. So he loved us enough that Jesus came into the world. And the Son of God coming into this world, lived a perfect life. And then he went to the cross where God the Father poured out his anger on the Son so that he wouldn't have to pour out his anger on us. He paid the penalty for us. Now, if we will just ask him to come into our heart. This is the way we said it back then. And Forgive us, He'll do it now. If we don't, we're still going to get punished. That's and I guarantee you, almost unless you're the exception, you're watching this podcast, this program, almost everybody watching says, well, what's wrong with that? Of course, that's the gospel. Do you know what I just gave you? I gave you what's one theory of atonement. But when you hear something explained one way your whole life, you come to a place where you don't question it because you don't even know it can be questioned. It's a self evident reality. I don't have time to get into it now. I've got it in some of my teachings. I mentioned it in my book beyond an Angry God. Do a little bit of writing about it. But there are at least five atonement theories and what I've just described to you that I grew up with is called penal substitution. That is that God the Father punished the Son so he wouldn't have to punish you. That left me always a little bit uneasy about the Father. I always loved Jesus, but it was almost like a good cop, bad cop. He stood between me and the Father to keep the Father from punishing me because he took it and the Father had to get it out of the system. Well, I won't go into a lot of depth on it. I've written about it and you guys can read it if you get that book and want to read it. But here's the way it really is. The evangelical presentation of the gospel starts with man's sin. I, I've, back in the day I, I led, led hundreds of people to the Lord with the Romans road. And the first one is for all of sin to come short of the Lord of God. But the good news of the New Testament in no way starts with man's sin. It starts with God's goodness. God is love, said John. God is love. And if you go all the way back to the beginning in Genesis, there was this triune relationship of Father, Son and Spirit, three in one, moving together in what the early Greeks called a parakoretic relationship. Parakoresis means that there, it's like dance partners moving in sync with each other to the music. And that was the word they used to describe the relationship that exists among the Trinity. Well, we all know clearly that God could have spent all eternity doing nothing but enjoying himself and the members of the Trinity among themselves just enjoying their life, his life. Because three in one together couldn't improve on the quality of love at all. But there is a time, or before time. Actually, before time, they can, they, they, they devised a way that they could enhance the experience. We can't. And let me take a little literary liberty to explain my theological view. It's like they said, we can't enlarge the quality of our love because it's perfect, but we can expand the reach of it. And the way we'll do that is we will create a species of beings for the single purpose of sharing in our love. And that's exactly what they did. They said, let us make man in our own image. And the thrill of eternity was when the Creator made mankind and he made all these other things and said, it's good. And then he created Adam and Eve and said, that's very good. And he came for his walk in the evening. And there was a oneness that they shared together that they enjoyed. And, and it's like Adam could say, for me to live is God. God defined him. God was his life. That entanglement existed. And then comes the fall in the garden. And what happened in the fall? What happened was Adam's mind and Eve's mind became darkened. And now they listen to the next word out of my mouth, wrongly saw themselves as being separated from God. No sooner had they sinned that they did self evaluation and concluded that they weren't suitable and presentable to God. That's what. There's your first legalistic act on planet Earth right there. Do I measure up? Will God be happy? No, I need to improve myself. So they made themselves coverings. So in their mind God would be mad. God is now angry. God is a judge. God has told us what to do and we didn't do it. And he's watching and he's going to hold us accountable for it. Everything changed in their mind. But when the end of the day came, what did God do? He came for his walk, just like he'd always done. Nothing changed with God, but it all changed with them. God has never been against us. And so this second shift in my life is when I began to move into this trinitarian viewpoint that says that it all happens inside the life and laughter and love and light of the Spirit, the Father, Son and Spirit. And we're right in the middle of it. Think of it like this. Any of you guys ever see my, what's that movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Did I say it right? You know, there's a, there's a scene where they're holding hands in the, at the wedding and their Music's playing and they've been drinking wine and laughing and having a party. And they're going around in a circle. Let me tell you the reason God created you, Everybody watching me, Dr. Ben, you, all of us, is because he brought us right into the center of that circle. We're the bride and he celebrates over us. Now, not everybody knows it, not everybody believes it, but the good news is that that's what he did. And when Jesus went to the cross, it wasn't some distant God the Father, pouring out some sort of justice, judgment against his Son. The Bible said God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself. And then over in Hebrews it says he offered himself by the eternal Spirit. The crucifixion was not a judicial act where God punished Jesus like a judge punishing a criminal. But the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was a triune rescue mission conducted by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I've been watching some of these movies where, you know, SEAL teams and special teams will come in and rescue the hostage from enemy territory. That's what it was about. He came and rescued us. Now, does that mean everybody is a Christian? No, Christians are Christ followers. But what it does mean is that when Jesus said, it is finished, he meant it. What he did, he did for everybody. The scripture says in Hebrews. I want to say it's chapter three the same. It's talking about believers and unbelievers. It says the same gospel that was presented to us was presented to them also. But it benefited them nothing because they didn't combine the truth with faith. What Christ did, he did for everybody. Believe. You know what the difference in a believer and an unbeliever is? Belief. Belief again. There are people that misunderstand the message and they'll say, that's Steve McVeigher, that Paul Young, or other people. They're saying everybody's going to heaven and everybody. You don't have to trust Christ. No, we're not. We're not saying any such thing. We're saying that you have been given. You know, you hit. You've been given the Powerball lottery prize. You've been given that. The money's been deposited in your bank. If you don't believe it, you won't enjoy it. If you get mad at people who tell you it's there, you won't enjoy it. If you say, I don't want it, you won't enjoy it. But once it's put in your bank, it's yours. You. It's it's. It's. And, and here's the point. What Jesus did for humanity, he took it to the bank. He's taken it to the bank. So we have nothing to fear and nothing to worry. All we need do is believe. So that was the second stage in my life, was when I began to understand God's not like I thought he was. He's not harsh, he's not judgmental. And again, I'm not trying to peddle a book, but we only have so much time. If you guys will get my book, beyond an Angry God, and you might have the books out of print, you might have to. I don't know. People have told me they found stupid high prices on Amazon. If you go to Grace Walk. Well, let me think, go to the Gracewalk experience.com and, and click my books and you can go in and buy it there anyway if you get the book. I talk about things like justice. God's justice is not human justice. God's justice is not about revenge, but about restoration, about redemption. And so my whole view of God changed. And let me tell you and Dr. Ben, I think you'll understand this because I know your background too, and a lot watching Will. I went through this phase early on because I'm. I grew up. I was. I used to say, I'm Baptist born Baptist bread, and when I die, I'll be Baptist dead. That's how deeply entrenched I was in it. And I remember thinking to myself, when I began to see this pur. Vision of God, this, I'm going to call it a beautific vision, maybe exaggerating a little, but not really. When I began to see this beautific vision of God, it would come to my mind sometime, am I getting liberal? Because let me tell you, in the Baptist church world I grew up in, you could be a murderer, an adulterer, you could be anything. But don't be liberal, because there's no place they don't tolerate that. And I thought, am I becoming liberal? And then I would find myself thinking, am I being misled? Because this is not what I heard in church. This is not what a lot of people believe. Have I come upon some message that's a minority report while the rest of the church doesn't believe this. And again, I don't have time to go all into it, but let me just say this, guys. This is not a new message, nor is it a minority report. This is the gospel. This is the theology of the early church. Go on the Internet and search the Cappadocian Fathers and see what Gregory of Nysa and just go, go through them and look at what some of these people had to say in the early church. And they would tell you the same thing I'm telling you. But just because we've heard some preacher yell something from the pulpit all our lives and he seemed to have a lot of authority and be smart, doesn't mean it was true. It doesn't mean it's right. So the second shift then, the first was a doctrinal shift. The second was a theological shift when I began to see God and humanity in a totally different way. And I think it's the way that reflects the heart of God and who he is. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Yeah, well, religion came in to that early church, and we've been getting untangled from religion ever since then. And it so lines up with the medical, conventional medical. You know, you can have some really, really smart doctors with white coats and stethoscopes and lots of initials behind their name with a big platform, big microphone and lots of publicity. And that doesn't mean what the telling you is true. And we saw a lot of that through Covet. So I think we've. Hopefully we've come to understand and my audience understands. Just because it's some big distinguished graduate from somewhere, we got to be careful. We got to search the Scriptures and we got to be leading. Let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth. [00:37:46] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Well, let's go. Let's move into. We got 30 minutes left. The next quantum leap, the third movement. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Shift was the quantum shift. I found myself. Well, I bought a book by having a brain freeze. I can't think of the guy's name. I read. I bought a Quant, a book on quantum mechanics. It was written for a popular audience, and I read it and I was. I loved it. I was taken aback by how much of it resonated with me in terms of what I had learned as a believer in what the Bible had even said. Different words, but the same kind of truth. For instance, let me make. Let me. Let me give you a quantum make. Let me. Let me tell you a quantum truth. All right? And then as. As those who are listening hear this, think about your background with the Bible, with church, your Christian faith, and interpret it into that language. But I'm going to give it to you in quantum speak. Everything in existence exists inside one unified field. It's been called by some the Matrix, others have called the ether. It's been called by a lot of different names, but it's this unified field that fills everything. And everything inside that field, there's nothing outside it. And everything inside it exists because that field gave rise to it, to physical existence. All the physical things come from that source, and it is inside that source, as I've said, that everything exists and that source sustains everything. There's nothing outside that source. But everything in it, from the tree in the yard to my life, would cease to exist if it weren't sustained by that unified field. So everything is included, everything is encompassed and swallowed up in that field. Now, quantum science, and let me make a distinction here, a lot of quantum science writers speak of that field as if it were an impersonal force. To them, it's a force that we know there are four major forces in. In nature. There's gravity, electromagnetism, and strong and weak nuclear force. This field is not even another force, but it is the ultimate reality which in within which all those forces exist and everything else exists. It's not impersonal, but it has personhood. Paul, I mean, not Paul Einstein. Albert Einstein asked a question and he said, in fact, he's reputed to have said that perhaps the most important question that one might answer for him or herself is, is. Is the universe a friendly place? Now, what kind of question is that to ask if nothing impersonal can be friendly? But Einstein asked that question, and he concluded that based on symmetry and beauty and balance and all of these things, that the universe is a friendly place. So now let me stop and let's lay that Bible down. That's the Quantum Bible, and pick up the Bible you grew up with. And what I just told you from your Bible is God fills all things, and he is the one who created everything that exists, and it all exists inside him and it is all sustained by Him. And because we're all inside him, we're all connected to Him. And everything, this is a quantum truth. Everything's interconnected and. And the end is Einstein asking, is the universe a friendly place? Here's John's answer. God is love. So what I began to see is that I began to read more and more quantum science books. And at first I thought, wow, that's kind of like my teaching in my faith. And then I began to see them come together like a Venn diagram where I was surprised. There's a lot that saying the exact same thing. And the more I studied and the further into it, I. The two circles, if you will, overlapped and they became concentric circles. And I realized, wait a Minute. Quantum mechanics can teach the truth of who God is and teach the gospel and teach our life in Christ to those who have ears to hear it. And I love it. I studied it because I love it. I learned it. I talk about it because it excites me. But I'll be honest with you, it's given me a lot of chance to talk about my faith with people that wouldn't listen if I. Why we're squirting the Bible to them. Yeah, but it gives me another language to use. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Yep. Well, explain kind of your, the way you see or define Newtonian for someone who's not even sure what quantum mechanics means or quantum physics means. Talk a little bit about that, the definition of that and the difference between Newtonian. [00:43:15] Speaker B: That's good. Can we, can we bring it into focus on medicine? Since you bet, let's, let's do that too. All right, so you take Dr. Ben there. He's been liberated. He was, he was educated as a classical doctor. You know, he, he learned the, the structure and the, the codes and the operator's manual for how doctors believed and what they behaved kind of like some, most of us did in church when we were growing up about our Christian faith. And then he reached a place where he had an epiphany and broke out and said, no, it's more than that. Typically, medicine sees the world through a materialistic lens. That is to say that a scientific materialist sees everything as separated and individual and unto itself. And let me, I wrote about this in Quantum Life. So you go to a materialist doctor and that doctor is going to look at your body almost like it's this big machine. And I mean, unless you've got a cut on your face or you've got a dangling broken arm or something like that, that doctor is going to do blood tests and they're going to look inside you and they're going to go smaller and smaller because I think if we can trace this back to whatever is causing it at the smallest point, then we can either solve it. More often than not, we can manage it because doctors don't stay in business solving problems. With all due respect, Dr. Ben, because I know that's not your approach, but we can manage it. And I'm, and anyway, I'm very familiar with that world. So they, they see the body like a, like levers and pulleys and pistons and all of that kind of thing. So everything operates in a cause and effect linear way. But the quantum world says, not that it's called Newtonian science, And by the way, Isaac Newton brought a lot of good stuff to the table and he was a devout believer in Christ, so we're not criticizing him. In fact, I applaud him for all that he did understand, considering how long ago he lived. But Newtonian science, as it's called, or scientific materialism, typically rejects anything metaphysical. It focuses exclusively on the physical. And if you cannot see it, test it, probe it, cut it, medicate, you know, if it's not physical, then that's pseudoscience to them. But quantum mechanics has come along at the beginning of the 20th century. Max Planck, who is the one that coined the phrase the Matrix, from which the movie was inspired, Max Planck and Niels Bohr and, and, and a lot of the, a lot of the early quantum mechanics, they began to say, no, there's not just individual particles, but there is in fact this ether. And 6th century BC Greeks use that word, by the way. They called it the, the home of the gods. There is this ether, this environment that we've been talking about already in which everything exists. And it's not a physical world, but it's a metaphysical world. It's alongside the physical world. It's a mystical world. I just have to say it's a spiritual world. And as they did research on that, they discovered that inside that world, every possibility resides. Quiffs, they call it stand K. I mean, qwf, quantum wave function. Everything exists in waveform. And when you see something with your eyes, it's because the wave has collapsed into particle form. Now let me switch over, let me talk Bible a minute. With God, all things are possible. All things are possible with God. And if you ask and believe, you'll see that you have that you have it. You'll see it. It collapses. Your prayer will be answered. It collapses into part of the form. So quantum sciences have begin to rattle the cage at the beginning of the 20th century. Einstein was a good example. Einstein had a real problem with a lot of this stuff I've mentioned, quantum entanglement. Einstein sarcastically referred to it as spooky action that happens at a distance. Now, by the end of his life, to his credit, unlike a lot of scientific fundamentalists and doctors who are fundamentalists and preachers who are fundamentalists and church member, unlike the fundamentalists, who are unyielding and unwilling to admit there might be a different way, Einstein was willing to look at it another way. And by the end of his life, he, he came around to a large degree and acknowledged some of the things that Niels Bohr and Max Blank. And some of the others have been saying so in a nutshell, you've got those that approach health, that approach life from a purely physical form, and those that understand that there are unseen forces. Now, the quantum world, the matrix, the divine matrix, as Greg Braden calls it. He's not a, he's not a Christian to my knowledge, but he writes some good stuff about it. The divine matrix is, is what Jesus called the kingdom of God. But let me remind you, in this spiritual world where you and I live, the king is not. The kingdom is nothing apart from the king. It's not streets of gold and pearl gate, pearly gates that make it heaven for us. It's who's there, Christ. So Paul, then when he comes along and he's writing about it, he refers to it as in Christ. And what you'll see when you begin to acquaint yourself with these quantum truths and principles that are absolute and universal, that is, they're entirely true. And they happen every time around, in every instance, they're true. What you begin to see is that Jesus lived a quantum life. And to the degree that they could understand, the disciples did. I, I think Jesus was, He lived that quantum life that, that I wrote about in these books. And I remember the disciples came to him one time and said, tell us what we can do. Good grief. These miracles you're doing, how, what do we need to do? How can we do these miracles? And there's this, this passage I love now that because I see it a different way. Jesus shook his head. He said, oh man, there is so much that I could tell you, but you wouldn't be able to understand it. You wouldn't be able to bear it. He knew he's living a quantum life. Try telling that to a third century person. They would. You wouldn't have a clue what he was talking about. There's a lot I could tell you, but you wouldn't understand it. Buddy said, but after I leave, there's a teacher who's coming. And that teacher will lead you into all truth, not just Sunday school truth, not even just Bible truth, but all truth. And I think that's what the quantum world is doing. And then we can talk about how thoughts and words and that kind of thing have an effect in people in medicine, if you want, or I'll open the door and we've got. I'm on your clock. So you decide where you want to go with it. [00:50:54] Speaker A: Well, I want to try to help people move from that physical into this quantum and use the body as an Example, if you've got a bad gallbladder and your doctor's saying time to take out your gallbladder and you can fill in the blank. You have a migraine headache or you have a sore toe, or your pancreas isn't working, your diabetic, your hormones or whatever physical thing of you that you're suffering from, fill in the blank. But let's use gallbladder. Take a microscope onto that gallbladder and look down and you'll get down to the cellular level. A cell has fat that makes up the cell membrane, water inside, and then there's proteins that make up structures like ribosomes, mitochondria. Your DNA is the double helix. There are so proteins, fats, water. These are made of atoms of, of things, the elements from the periodic chart. Oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon. So if you remember back to science class, you look at one of those atoms of hydrogen. There's protons and neutrons in the nucleus. There's electrons that orbit the nucleus. Electrons are negative charged particles. Protons are positive, neutrons are neutral. And that's a lot of us were just taught. That's the building block, the basis of life. These protons, neutrons and electrons. And I've talked about before on the show, there's the equivalent space between this electron orbiting this nucleus is like putting a golf ball on the 50 yard line of the Jones AT&T football stadium at Tech here and having mosquitoes buzzing around at the top of the light post. Most of that atomic that makes up the cell that makes up your gallbladder that your doctor pushes on and it hurts real bad most, it's 99 empty space of physical particles. Now we've been able to take that microscope even further and you get down to subatomic particles, quarks and tachyons and fermions. But you keep going down and you get to where there's no measurable visible physical particle. You're talking about energetic vibrational frequencies of energy. And think of a magnet. When you have two big magnets and, and you're bringing them together and they almost pull themselves together, there's a force, an invisible force of attraction. Or if you flip the magnet, it repels, you can feel that force. There's a force there. So that's kind of, you can get your mind wrapped around this, that there's these invisible forces at play at the very, very base of your physical cells and, and organs and everything. That's what we're talking about. So maybe, Steve, you can take it from there because in the book it talks about you're kind of popping in and out of. [00:53:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Into a physical particle, into vibrational frequency, into a physical. And it's this vibrational thing. So maybe kind of explain that from there. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's a good. That's. That's a good direction to go with this, to rounded out. Everything in existence is energy. Everything. This remote that I hold in my hand, this mouse that I use, this, the cell phone in here in my hand, it's all energy. And it's, as you said, if you take an electron microscope and you zoom in on this thing, you zoom into it close enough and as you say, get down to those subatomic particles, the quarks and all of that, and you keep zooming in, and what'll happen is you'll reach a space where that particle will disappear and then it'll pop in the visibility over here, and then it'll disappear there and pop in over here. Why? Because there's really. I'm going to say it in a way that sounds weird, but there's really no such thing as physicality. There is, obviously, but the reason there's physicality is because the vibration or frequency of the wave slows down enough that we can see it now. Take you and I in our lives, we. Right now, I am popping in and out of visibility. You know why you can't see it? Well, the good news is I'm popping in and out of visibility at a rate that's slow enough. You can see me sitting here. But did you know that I am actually popping in and out of visibility 20,000 times a nanosecond? [00:55:11] Speaker A: Wow. [00:55:12] Speaker B: So you might say I'm only here part time. Yeah, I'm only here part time. I live here part time. Well, where do I live the rest of the time? Well, might I use the words of the Bible? I'm seated by the right hand of the Father in Christ. I think it'd be safe to say 20,000 times a nanosecond could be being in two places at one time. Right, so. So if it's all energy, back to your thing about the. The genes and the gallbladder and the cells and all of that. Bruce Lipton, and I know you, you're familiar with him. I don't know how much you. Well, you've interviewed him, you said, right? [00:55:47] Speaker A: Yep. Years ago. I encourage the listeners. Go back and listen to it still. Perfect. [00:55:51] Speaker B: You guys that don't know who Bruce Lipton is, you need to find Dr. Bruce Lipton. He's a Medical Doctor is his classic monumental book, in my opinion, is the Biology of Belief. And he talks about how that cells are not just little robots that are waiting to be told what to do by our genes, but that our cells in our body, he says they're intelligent beings that respond to their environment. And Lipton is the one that really. And I talk about him because he's the one, from a medical standpoint, that brought me through the doorway to see this. He says that your body responds at a cellular level to the influence that comes by your thoughts and your words and your feelings and your focus. Now, this is back to what you said at the beginning. Then people think, is that New Agey? Listen, guys, I'm not going to pretend there aren't New Age people that don't teach this. They do, but they also used air conditioning. I live in Florida, and I'm not going to turn my AC off just because the New Ager uses it. I can't help the fact somebody else gets it, too. In fact, Jesus once said, the children of this world are in often cases wiser than the children of light. But no, this is not New Agey because again, they're talking about a force, and I'm talking about a person named Christ. They're talking about a. They're talking about a. A ritual, if you will, a formula. And I'm talking about faith. But anyway, so back to Lipton. He really makes a good case for how that the way we think, the way we feel and the way we talk has everything to do with the condition that we live in. And that is. [00:57:42] Speaker A: And that's the main point, guys. The reason I have Dr. Steve on here, and I've had other people on here, is if you try to just fix yourself with physical things only, I'm going to eat perfect, supplement perfect, workout perfect, hydrate perfect. All the things in the physical, perfect, which, that's all stewardship. And I think we need to steward our physical. But if we're doing it apart from. Or you can't do it apart from, you are thinking and speaking all the time. This thing is, these laws, these quantum laws are happening. I mean, they're, they're ongoing in the background. This is impacting you, it's impacting your cells, it's impacting your function. And so you need to know about it, you need to understand it, and it's all through the word. God gave us this in the book. It's a quantum physics book, really. Steve, we just have a few minutes left. An experiment that Turned science on its head, I think is maybe how you described or broke science. Possibly that slit. [00:58:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that was their phrase. Okay. The experiment that broke reality. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So it should be enough for us to say the, the word of God says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he in the power. Life and death is in, in the tongue. And there's other verses. That should be enough. [00:58:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:58:56] Speaker A: We've been trained to trust science. So let's go scientific and show how quantum is now proven. The Bible out. And, and part of this is this initial experiment that turned things on their head. As far as the Newtonian physicists go. [00:59:10] Speaker B: That'S exactly what thrilled me about quantum science. Listen, guys, when I grew up, and most all of you grew up, in fact, even now, I expect we were in school and we were taught science, we were taught Darwinian science, we were taught Newtonian science, quantum sciences. And you had to pick your, pick your side, so to speak. In this corner, weighing in at £185, you have Charles Darwin. Over in this Corner, you have £170, Jesus of Nazareth. And you had to pick who your hero was going to be because science and faith were in opposition to each other back in those days. Not anymore, not now. If you really quantum. Understand quantum mechanics, quantum science and our faith in God have come together and joined hands and can walk happily together into the sunset when we prop, when we properly understand both. Now, if you still have a wrong concept of who God is, they're not going to fit. Or if you don't understand what quantum science is saying, they're not going to fit. But if you understand both, they have joined hands and they're walking arm in arm into this, into the horizon, because they're complementary, not contradictory to each other. There's so much. And you know, maybe, well, like you say, we're out of time, but there's, there's so many. I've got experiments that I wrote about in the book Quantum Life that, that researchers have done that show the power of the way people think. I mean, you're, you're a doctor and you know, they have learned that if the doctor says, well, you know, that's just a problem you have because of your age and I'm at the point where you might hear that then it, the, the person accepts it, they believe it, they appropriate the, the prophecy, if you will, the curse out of that guy's mouth, they believe it, they think it's true, they act on it and they go down, down, down. Whereas if the doctor just changes his words, it says, you know, this is a challenge that we will need to address and solve just something that simple. [01:01:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:16] Speaker B: Framing the way the patient sees it. [01:01:19] Speaker A: Yep. [01:01:19] Speaker B: And understands it means all. Makes all the difference in the world. [01:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. It gives hope. And with that hope, the body can really do a lot. We are out of time, Steve. We could go on and on and on, guys. I recommend Quantum Life and Steve's other quantum books too, which I haven't read, but I will. And the, the things he was talking about in the first half of the show, you know, Grace Walk. And what was the other book about? Angry God, Steve. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Beyond an Angry God. [01:01:49] Speaker A: Beyond an Angry God. Go get those books, guys. Really, you know, we're trying to have our aha, Quantum leap moments with the audience because we're in the season, I think of this fast forward information, it says in the Bible information is going to exponentially grow in the last days. And I think that's where we're at for sure. So we're trying to bring some of this along to you, especially if you're hurting, you're suffering, you're. You're trying to relieve some medical condition. You know, you can go to veritas wellnessmember.com Sign up with our wellness navigators that can walk you through stewardship and also walk you through some of this what we call peace pillar that's in more the spiritual and quantum realm. Whether you've been in church or not in church, religious or not religious, the truth is the truth and it will set you free. So, Steve, I'll give you the last word. Where can people follow you, find you get your books, all that kind of stuff. [01:02:42] Speaker B: Well, thank you. I was just looking while you were talking on my laptop here. If you go to gracewalkexperience.com or if you go to gracewalkresources.com either one will take you to the same landing page. I teach a daily group. It's a subscription group that I teach, have teachings five days a week and then we're live twice a week. But if you, you don't have to be a member of the group to do what I'm about to go to that landing page and if you'll scroll down to the bottom, on the bottom left hand side, you'll see a thing that says buy Steve McVeigh's books. And if you click that, then you'll be able to see my books and get any of them. But certainly the one one we're talking about here is beyond an Angry God. [01:03:25] Speaker A: Okay, awesome. Well, Steve, thank you so much for joining us today. We've really. I've really enjoyed it. I know the audience will get a lot out of it. Thanks for all you do. [01:03:34] Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you. [01:03:36] Speaker A: You bet. All right, everybody. I'm Dr. Ben Edwards. You're the Cure. This will be archived@veritas wellnessmember.com and all the podcast platforms share it far and wide so we can turn this healthcare fiasco around.