The Misinformation Playbook | Dr. Pierre Kory

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Dr. Ben Edwards here. Welcome to another episode of youf're the Cure. I've got an Amazing guest today, Dr. Pierre Corey. I first met Dr. Corey, didn't meet him, but heard about him and started following him during COVID You know, a few of us doctors, for some reason, I call us the common sense clinicians with compassion, but we got a got to communicating through various means during COVID to try to help patients and the frontline critical care doctors. And Dr. Pierre Cory was in that group and then of course, more recently with the measles outbreak. But Dr. Corey's got a unique perspective and I wanted him to share his life journey really in medicine and just really the microscope on American medicine that I talk about it all the time. We spend the most money to get the worst health outcomes and we got to do something different. And the something different is happening. There's physicians coming out of the system, there's patients coming out of the system. There's different ways to even do health insurance now. So it's happening. Whether it's going to happen inside the system with government insurance, Medicare, all that changing also, time will tell, but that'll be the conversation today. Where are we at with American medicine and what's the future look like? So, Dr. Pierre Cory, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here, Dan. [00:01:16] Speaker B: My pleasure. It's good to see you again. Good to work with you. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Well, I really, I want you to start. I want to go back before, you know, I caught the awakening. So many are awakening up, but just going back, college, med school, whatever, even before that, if you want to. When you think about becoming a doctor, how'd those first years go? And then what's changed and why did things change recently? [00:01:38] Speaker B: All right, you know what? I'm in the mood, Ben. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say things about myself I haven't said before. [00:01:43] Speaker A: All right, let's hear it. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Inspire me. So I'll bring you back to my lowest point in my life. So I was. I was a bit of a messed up teenager, you know, just always want to go out with friends. I was actually a good student. I didn't find school that chall. I went to a public school and I thought it was a bit of a joke. I just sort of. I barely studied and I did well, but I was like really misbehaving. Partied a lot too much in college. And oddly, I kind of almost flunked out of college. I graduated with a 2.67 GPA and only, you know, how tough that is to become a doctor. But here's the weird thing is that I always kind of wanted to be a doctor. Like when I was in college, like business did not interest me at all. Like I was kind of anti business law. Not really. I couldn't really write that well at the time and I just couldn't figure out. But I like science and math. I was actually a math major in college. And so I kind of thought I was going to be a doctor or a teacher. And you know, fast forward 10, 15 years, I became both. I was, you know, an educator. I ran a training program in pulmonary and critical care. I was a really well invited lecturer. I gave a lot of courses and stuff and. But to get from a 2.67 to becoming a doctor, that was quite a journey. So what I like to remind people is I literally was in the restaurant business all in my 20s. I didn't go to medical school until I was 29 because I was trying to like kind of rehabilitate myself in terms of went to graduate school to get better grades. And even with really good grades and getting invited to work research with my professors in graduate school, then I couldn't get into an American medical school. They just would not. They liked my MCATs, they didn't like my GPA and they just wouldn't take me. And so I went, actually went overseas. I went to Grenada and had the great time there. I think I got an excellent training. I did my residency stuff in New York City and my fellowship there. And like once, once I graduated and got good residencies and training, like my career kind of took off. I mean I got really as you know, I'm a pulmonary and critical care physician and I was like one of the youngest program directors in the country. I was like, I took over the program at four years out and so I was running a training program and I just was, I lucked up and I trained under some phenomenal doctors. Like my my first mentor was a guy named Paul Mayo who was literally like probably the world expert at critical care ultrasonography. He essentially pionee the field, at least in this country. And I was like his lieutenant, like his right hand man. And I was, I became like a world renowned ultrasound expert. And so I taught courses all over the country, put together the courses for the American College of Chest Physicians. I mean I did that for years. I was constantly, every few months traveling to some city or another. We would hold these big courses. And so many doctors were coming to those courses because they were seeing just how, how Impactful. It was when you had a crashing patient to put a probe on their chest, see what their heart was doing, see if their lungs were full of water, look for a dvt. I mean, there's so many applications that we're using it for. And it gave you these, like, kind of almost gonna say, like, superpowers. Like, I felt like I knew more stuff about my patient with that ultrasound probe in my hand than I ever could have otherwise. And, you know, when I would go to, like, emergencies or other things where I'd see doctors who didn't know ultrasound, they're just, like, screaming for tests. Check this, check a blood. Check a blood gas, check, you know, this. Get an X ray. And, like, I could find out so many things really quickly at the bedside. And when you have someone crashing, it's really important. So I fell in love with critical care ostenography. And I wrote up being the senior editor of a textbook that's translated into, like, seven languages. It's in its third edition now. And so that was, like, my first kind of sub specialty area of expertise. I also had a transformative case of using therapeutic hypothermia and cardiac arrest. And that became another thing of mine. So, like, I became nationally known for being an expert at therapeutic hypothermia. I wrote papers, did research. So I got really interested in treating cardiac arrest. And then this is where the story gets real interesting. Ben. I met a guy named Paul Marek. So Paul came into my life, which is kind of a funny story. It was after his, I call it a landmark paper showing this immense mortality reduction in severe sepsis with the use of IV vitamin C. You know, it was paired with thiamine and corticosteroids, but the IV vitamin C carried most of the water. And the funny little background is. I think you'll appreciate this as a doctor, because you also asked me about, like, what was it like before you were awake and now. So you have to understand something about Paul Marek and my specialty. He's. He was really well known. Like, when I was a fellow, you'd hear people talking about Marek. And the reason why Marek was so talked about is he would always be invited to our annual conferences for the two major societies in our specialty. His lectures were always like, standing room only because he was consistently contrarian to the consensus. Like, you know, people would. You know, for septic shock, you know, people were bolusing three liters of saline. He would put together all of the evidence why, physiologically and clinically, that is a bad thing to do is to flood these patients with all these saline and which went against all the guidelines and standards of care. And so he would really make you think about what we were doing. Like, why are we doing this? If the science says what Paul is saying. And he did that with a number of things. So he's this well known guy. In fact, he is, or was when his career ended, he was the most published practicing intensivist in the history of our specialty. And weird. This weird caveat happened is that I wrote an. I wrote what's called a pro con editorial. So I did the con for the major journal in our special. I was invited to write this opposing viewpoint article. And I did it on a topic that was heavily influenced by Paul's work. And after that got published, I got an email from the great Paul Marek. And I was like totally honored, you know, like starstruck a little bit that Paul Marek is writing to me. And it was thinking about. It was a really cute email because he just, it was so funny. He writes to me basically telling me that I did a really good job with my article, but I missed this paper. It's me, the paper that I didn't say. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Classic. That's what a professor. [00:08:30] Speaker B: It was so cool though. And, and, and actually what happened was that paper got published after I'd already finished my draft. So it wasn't like I totally missed it, but. But it was a good paper. Anyway, the weird thing is Ben is I got that email from him and I never replied. And I don't want to go into too much of why, but it was because I was going through a, a really overwhelming personal family crisis at the time. I had three children, two of whom had catastrophic cases of what's called pandas. I'm sure you know what pandas is. And it was at a time where the system was failing us. Everyone was telling me that my daughter was anxious and she suddenly developed a general anxiety disorder, which was complete nonsense. But we were flailing. I mean, we were going to all these doctors and they were just. It was a really difficult time in my life. And I remember getting the email and not replying to him. But I always left it bolded in my inbox. Like whenever I clear out my inbox, I always left that email from Paul Marek. Fast forward like three years and Paul publishes his paper on IV vitamin C. And this is where it's kind of funny. I see the paper. I have a lot of respect for Marek, but I'm like, what is this BS? He's reducing mortality from 40% to 8% with a vitamin. I mean, you gotta understand the old me, right? Vitamins? Who takes vitamins? It's all nonsense. It's all silly. Yeah, vitamins, cures everything, right? And so, like I was you, you kind of trained, if you're in the system, to be antivitamin, right? It's all quackery. It's all nonsense. It's all these health claims. And so I would always ignore vitamins, but that paper kind of stuck in my head, but I dismissed it. And I will tell you, all of my colleagues did, too, except they did it for different reasons, because his was a retrospective observational trial. You know, they would say, you know, they were saying that you can't rely on that trial when the mortality drops from 40% to 8%. It has nothing to do with the design of the trial. You have to explain why it's so impactful. And I just remember just kind of dismissing it without examining it, and. But the problem was, a month, a year later, I was in the icu. It was a bad ICU week in terms of mortality rates. You know, they fluctuate throughout the year. And like this week, Ben, I had a lot of dying patients. And I remember there was this Chinese patient, and the family was in so much distress because he was dying. And they were begging me to do something, anything, you know, try anything you can. And I was like, oh, there's that stupid maric protocol with the vitamins. So I pull the paper and I order the three elements. It's high dose IV vitamin C, IV thiamine, and IV corticosteroids. I kind of already had corticosteroids in my. In my protocols. But I tried it on him and he died a few hours later. But I was not. I did not think anything of it, because anyone who's literally actively dying, there's not much you can do for them. But since I'd used it once, couple days later, I had a severe sepsis patient with necrotizing fasciitis. I put her on the protocol and I saw her kind of stabilizing before she went to the or, but then she went on the surgical service. So. But now I'm sort of like. It's. Now it's like a tool in my power. I don't know that it works. I know it's harmless, and it's something I can pull out in sick patients. But here's. Here was like the. The big thing is that I saw, had a patient admitted to my ICU one morning from the Bone marrow transplant floor. So they were six days out for their bone marrow transplant, which means they have zero white cells, right? They haven't. Bone marrow hasn't taken yet. And they were completely, overwhelmingly septic. So disoriented, tachycardic, breathing fast on two pressers with no blood pressure and no urine in the bag. The wife is freaking out. She's never seen her husband this sick. And I knew he was going to be on a venture like within hours. I mean, he just looked terrible. Start the Marek protocol. And I don't know what happened that day, if I saw him before I left or I'd heard reports he was getting better. But come in the next morning. Ben, this is a Guy got admitted 11:00am There was like a Wednesday. I come in the next morning, he's the first patient I go see in the icu. Walk into his room, he's sitting in an armchair eating scrambled eggs. And there's a full bag of urine, you know, attached to his catheter. And he's off of all pressers. And the nurses say to me, oh yeah, he's being transferred back to the bone marrow transplant floor. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like severe septic shock with no white cells and on round. So we still rounded on him on rounds. The cultures come back. Four out of four E. Coli in the blood, four out of four bottles. Okay? And I'm sitting there and I'm trying to tell the team like what just happened. I was like, and I was telling my fellow, I was like, I in my career have never seen severe septic shock and multi organ failure turn around in less than 24 hours. Like this guy was going back to the room during rounds. The bone marrow transplant attending had come down to see him and he interrupts my rounds and he goes, pierre, what did you do to him? I thought for sure he'd be on a circuit and event by now, meaning a dialysis circuit and an event. And I look at, I look at him, I'm like, mark, you're not gonna believe this. Gave the guy IV vitamin C and he just kind of shrugged his shoulders. He's like, okay, whatever, you know. But that's a long segue to say that after that experience, I started integrating in my practice and I saw other quote unquote, just dramatic recoveries, but not always. And I didn't know. I started to do research into it and when I got interested, I ended up writing back to Paul Marek. So a few years later I wrote back to him and I was Just like this IV vitamin C thing is huge. We got on the phone, our first conversation. We spent two hours talking about IV vitamin C. Paul was telling me what he was seeing in his unit. He said, barely anyone goes on dialysis anymore. He says he thinks that nephrologists are getting pissed because they make a lot of money with dialysis in the hospital. But he said that he was down to like 1.1 day admissions for septic shock. Literally just turning people around with septic shock. And then I did a study which I think was really critical, which is I had been using it. So I was the chief of a service with 17 ICU doctors on it. I tried to convince all of them to use it as an ICU protocol, gave them all of the data. What do you think happened, Ben? [00:15:18] Speaker A: 0 out of 17? [00:15:20] Speaker B: No, it was a little bit better than that. It was four. I literally got attacked. People thought it was the most outrageous thing, even though I was showing them paper after paper which shows that on average, a patient admitted to an ICU has literally near undetectable vitamin C levels. It gets all consumed. So you have severe vitamin C deficiency of anyone coming into an icu. And I was like, why can't we just call it a repletion protocol? And we'll just put them on like, you know, like we do potassium, magnesium. Simple. We're just repleting vitamin C. And I got attacked. My chief came after me. He thought I was completely bonkers. But I did get about four of us to routinely use it. And those four, they started to see things too, that they'd never seen before. So after about a year, we did this retrospective study. And what I discovered in that research is that the life saving benefits were very time dependent. And what we discovered is that if you got IV vitamin C within six hours of entering the ER or any hospital, basically nobody died. If you got it between six and 12 hours, there was still a large reduction in mortality. But after 12 hours from admission to your first illness or visit to the hospital, you didn't have that mortality benefit. There were other benefits, but they weren't as profound. So it's quite a time sensitive thing. And so I published that paper. And so I was like, I just became very close with Paul. He and I became like partners and colleagues. And then. But let's go. Let me go back to your question about like, what was my, like, let's call it an awakening. Right. So I've said this before, but prior to Covid, Ben, if you'll forgive me, I was A New York City liberal who voted Democrat. I read the New York Times religiously. I believed it was the arbiter of truth and the true, you know, factual evidence of what was going on in the world. Like, I had the highest esteem for New York Times. I've been raised to read it. I've been reading it since I was 6. I believed in the medical journals, particularly the high impact ones. I thought only the best science and scientists published there. I believe the public health agencies were doing the best they could. In fact, I even thought Fauci was like a sympathetic guy in a tough spot with a lot of critics. Now, how far have I come? None of those things are true anymore, right? So Covid really did awaken me. And as well as Paul. And I have to say, you know, Paul's not here right now, but I would speak for Paul. I think he and I had very similar political sensibilities. Trust in institutions, trust in the journals. And what we discovered in Covid, being on the front lines of COVID because we were literally trying to lead. We were trying to fill in gaps where the government was failing, they were not offering any treatment recommendations and people are dying left and right. And we thought that was absurd. The stay at home until your lips turn blue. I mean, it's such an absurdity that they would do that. And we were trying to reach out to officials and leaders and we were trying to suggest therapies. But problem is that gets messy, right? Everyone wants to suggest theories, but I say that's okay. As long as they're safe and have some promise of efficacy, why not use it instead? They were all doing the supportive care only. But anyway, once we started to put out protocols and then once Paul identified the signal around Ivermectin, and I wrote that review paper and I gave that testimony, that's when my life really changed in terms of not only awakening, but also persecution. So as I was awakening, I was also getting persecuted. And what I came to discover, and this is a long answer to the opening question, but I discovered, because I was a world expert on a really timely and global topic, I discovered that the there was nothing but lies and distortions and persecuting actions all directed at Ivermectin. I had to read the best newspapers in the world spew lies about Ivermectin. I had to see PR campaigns calling it a horsey wormer. You know, where every talking head on television is saying, horse dewormer, horse dewormer, horse dewormer. Like reading off of a script. I Saw papers, studies getting published from the top universities in the world in the best journals that were so brazenly and clearly manipulated to show that Ivermectin didn't work. And that's when I. That blew my head off, Ben, because I saw the top journal in the world, the New England Journal of Medicine, published a together trial. And those of us who had studied the trial, like, we saw all of the stuff they were pulling in that trial, but to no avail. That thing sailed through peer review and was published. And then it ignited PR campaigns across the world. Latest high quality, rigorous trial on Ivermectin shows not effective. Right. And. And then what the FDA did, scaring the pharmacist. You couldn't fill Ivermectin. You know, I was losing jobs left and right. I couldn't rein employed. There's media hit jobs going after me. And. And so, like, my life went sideways real quick. Because what I discovered a few months into that war is that what I was up against was a massive disinformation campaign. And how I discovered that was one day. And this is kind of probably the biggest awakening that happened to me is it was a few months after my Ivermectin testimony and this world expert in vitamin D got named by Dr. William B. Grant out in California. Don't know who he is. Writes me an email. Two lines in the email, he says, he says, Dear Dr. Corey, what they've been doing to Ivermectin, they've been doing to vitamin D for decades. And he included a link to an article called the this is the Disinformation Playbook. I'm telling you, your listeners and readers should go to that article. Just Google it. The Disinformation Playbook. It's short, it's easy to read, it's got cool graphics. And I opened this article and I'm like, whoa. And basically the article was written in 2017. And they defined Disinformation Playbook as the tactics employed by corporations when science emerges that's inconvenient to their interests. And they have all of these case studies in there of different, different disinformation campaigns, you know, conducted by corporations. When science. And by the way, the. The first Disinformation Playbook was invented by the tobacco industry. Went around the time when Babe Ruth got jaw cancer. Like he was their number one pitchman and spokesman. Suddenly, cigarettes weren't looking good. People are linking it to cancer, and they hired a PR firm to do. And that's literally, these campaigns are run by PR firms. And I read that article is March of 21, and like, it's like a light bulb went off in my head. I was like, that is what's going. I didn't know what was going on, Ben. There were so many things that were happening us that were bad. Not only the censoring, the de platforming, the hit jobs, but, like, you know, my paper got retracted even after passing peer review, was supposed to be published, and suddenly the publisher retracts it with a BS reason. So, like, I just couldn't figure out why the world was behaving because I literally thought we were. We had identified and we're trying to disseminate knowledge of a really effective therapeutic. And instead all we got was backlash from that. And I realized after reading that article that repurposed drugs that are off patent are literally the Achilles heel of the pharmaceutical industry. They will crush any drug that threatens their pricey pipeline. Patented pharmaceuticals, they've been doing it for decades. And like that researcher said, what they've done, the vitamin D. If you look at the entire literature on vitamin D, basically it shows that it doesn't work for anything because for every positive trial, they'll publish a negative trial. So then they leave it controversial and not adopted. So you don't have a clear signal for how important vitamin D is because the literature is so polluted. And vitamin D is just one example. Right? They do this with all sorts of other drugs, whether they're pro, like SSRIs, they'll bury all studies of negative adverse effects. Or if it's a threatening drug like Ivermectin, they put out fraudulent trials. And once I discovered, like, the game, the playbook, the game. And then there's another tactic called the blitz, where they harass the scientists bringing out that inconvenience science. And once I read that, I was like, oh, that's what's going on. [00:24:06] Speaker A: I'm getting blitzed, you know, for it. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I was like, oh. And one of the examples was Merck, because Merck with Vioxx, they had a hit list of doctors who were trying to call out warnings on Vioxx with heart attacks. And so they were messing with those doctors who were just doing the right thing. And so. So, like, I don't think people understand just how insidious and powerful the pharmaceutical industry is in medicine. And particularly the stuff they pulled in Covid. I mean, to me, their sum total, their actions were crimes against humanity. I mean, they caused millions of people to die around the world because of their distortion of Information censoring, publishing a false science. It, it was, it transformed me as a doctor and as a, as a man. Like I'm not the same guy anymore. I there my cynicism and skepticism now knows no bounds. Whereas before I think I was quite naive. I do not trust the impact journals. I don't even read them anymore. Because you don't know what to trust. And that sentiment has been shared by former editors of those journals. Right. You probably know about Marcia angel. She was 20 year editor of New England Journal Medicine. She stepped down from her post to write a book about how corrupt the journals were. And she said over half of what's printed in those journals, you can't. You have it. That's it. Yeah, I read it too. And, and, but there's other, like British medical journal the Lancet. Those editors have also come out and said how corrupt the journals are. And I don't know what you were like before COVID but I trusted him. And I would chide Paul, I'd be like, paul, did you know this stuff? Because Paul's been publishing his whole life in journals. Honest science. But Paul said he had no idea it was that bad. [00:25:55] Speaker A: No. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Until you start looking at a topic you don't know. But when did you buy that book? [00:26:00] Speaker A: That was years ago. I, I started waking up in 2012 and that's oh boy story. My audience knows. But after seven years of conventional medicine, I met a doctor who. And it took a year for me arguing with him. But he told me there's no such thing as diseases. There are consequences rooted in inflammation, oxid of stress, mitochondrial dysfunction. He started connecting some dots again. It took a year for me to really like there's no way, there's no way what you're saying could be true. And he's like, oh yeah, these diverses will go into remission. These diseases will go into remission. Give the body what it needs, avoid what it doesn't. Basic stuff. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Basic stuff we're not taught in medical school. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Exactly. And of course I kept going back to there's no way. You're right. If type 2 diabetes is totally reversible, which is what he told me. Then my endocrinologist professor at UT Houston and Waco Family Practice and here at Texas Tech would have told me that would have been teaching. That would be on the news, be in the journals. I'm just that cognitive dissonance. So that was in 2012 for me. So I was pretty prepared for the. [00:27:01] Speaker B: I had a. Yeah, Covid is what did it for me. You know, because it wasn't just learning about the disinformation book and, and Ivermectin. I'd already started questioning a lot of the behaviors, which were so brazenly kind of idiotic and non scientific. And like, I think one of my first kind of head scratching moments was, I think it was April of 2020. I remember I was driving in the car listening to npr, if I recall correctly, and they announced that the FDA had just restricted hydroxychloroquine to the hospital. And I'm sitting there in a car now. I didn't know that hydroxychloroquine worked. I wasn't on the hydroxychloroquine bandwagon. In fact, at that time, I didn't think it worked. But I said to myself, whether it works or not, if you're going to use it, you want to use in the first hours or days of any viral syndrome, you're not going to wait eight days until they land in the hospital. I wouldn't use hydroxychloroquine then. And I just like, why would they do that? I was like, that's so stupid. I thought it was stupidity. Ben. And then probably the final nail in the coffin where I finally concluded this whole thing is captured. The agencies are captured, the journals are like, I gave up thinking that there was like. And what you just described, like, our educational system is captured. Universities are captured. You know, all of these things that they teach, they're all manufactured and controlled. It's what they want you to know. It's not. They don't want you to know what's, what's real. And the final nail in the coffin was a few weeks after the vaccine campaign. And I had a couple of guys that I knew that were internists who were checking Covid antibodies before vaccinating. Reasonable, right? If they got antibodies, why would you give them an old antigen? And in response, very quickly, the FDA put a page on their website saying that there was no scientific evidence for that practice and that it should not be done. And that's when I was like, whoa, this is. It was so brazen that what they were trying to do is make the market of arms that can be eligible for a vaccine to be the biggest possible. I was like, it's so clear that they're doing that. They're disappearing natural immunity so that they could jab everybody. [00:29:24] Speaker C: Are you ready to take control of your health together? You're not alone. Dr. Ben, as well as a mission driven team here at Verito created this online wellness membership because so many are suffering. 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So whether you're just starting your wellness journey or ready to go deeper, there's something here for you. So jump in today. We can't wait to walk this journey with you. Visit veritas wellnessmember.com to get started. [00:31:03] Speaker B: And I that scared me. I was like wow. Like that. That was the clearest evidence that our agents are completely working for pharma and the military. But that's another, that's another discussion. But yeah, so my, my awakening was pretty rapid, but it was complete. It was total. Like the scope and the scale of what I saw they, they could do and Covid was overwhelming and terrifying. I, I, I, it was almost like I lived in a different world in a world that I didn't live in before. So for me it was a really rapid and really transformative awakening. [00:31:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Could you talk a little bit for people that don't know about the experience or maybe even with Paul Merrick experience in the ICU treating Covid with vitamin C and ivermectin or whatever. What, what were you seeing when, what was he seeing and what came of that? [00:31:51] Speaker B: So I think you'll appreciate this nuance. But the first thing we did as a group so we formed as the FLCCC in March of 2020. I think our website was up by April 1st. We put out our first protocol for hospital ICU care. It was called the math plus protocol. It was methylprednisolone which was recommended against by everybody in the world. Ascorbic acid, vitamin C, thiamin and heparin. We saw these patients were clotting like crazy and then we had other elements that we added. But here's My experience, Paul and Joe, two of my colleagues in the flccc, they were having immense success. Their mortality rates were really low. In my icu, I did not see those benefits. And there's a reason why. In both Paul and Joe's hospitals, the patients with COVID were on their service on admission. So they were starting the protocol on admission to the hospital. I was getting patients who were on the floors for five days, six days a week. They were crashing on the ventilators then coming to me. And when I started all that stuff, I could turn a couple of people around, but it largely wasn't, it was just too late. Like, you know, every disease, the earlier you treat, the better the outcomes. And Covid was particularly sensitive to that. And so I didn't have the same success. But we were tracking Paul and Joe's and they were doing really well. They were turning some really sick patients around and, or preventing them from going to the icu. But they had a very good ICU mortality. In fact, Paul got access to his hospital data. He had 50% less than mortality of anyone else working in his ICU, but he was the only one using the protocol. So we know how to treat disease. And we were using steroids from the get go. And steroids turned out to be the most controversial thing for months. Everyone, all the ID doctors said, oh, you're going to kill them with steroids. It'll make the infection worse. And we knew it wasn't about the virus anymore, it was inflammation. And, and so we did really well with steroids and ultimately we were vanquished. You know, I testified in the Senate about the critical need for corticosteroids. In May of 2020, that was the first time that Senator Johnson invited me to speak. It didn't go viral like the ivermectin one. But Senator Johnson told me afterwards that he heard from doctors all over the country thanking Senator for giving me that platform. Because after they heard me give that testimony, it emboldened a lot of doctors to start using corticosteroids. And they were seeing that it was turning people around. But I said that testimony at a time when every national and international health organization said not to use steroids. But we had tons of data. We knew steroids were critical. We knew that from SARS and MERS epidemic doctors in China and in the Far east, they knew that corticosteroids were critical in dealing with, you know, hospitalized, you know, MERS and SARS patients. And so we had. Yeah, it just another thing, like everything I did in Covid completely disagreed with what they were doing. And if I may say so, Ben, we got everything right? Yeah, we got everything right. [00:34:54] Speaker A: Yep. Well, even to this day, it was just maybe a month ago, which this is hearsay, but a good friend of mine told me a local physician made fun of him when he found out he used Ivermectin when, when my friend had coveted back in the day. And the doctor said, oh, the horse dewormer. What in the world were you thinking? That was a month ago. But to just touch a little bit on Ivermectin and we want to go a deep dive. I do want to get into, you know, the future of medicine and all that, but maybe just because of that comment, I don't. I'm not trying to prove anything to all these doctors. You've got to have eyes that you see and ears to hear. And if people aren't seeking the truth, looking for the truth, I mean, what you're about to say about Ivermectin is going to bounce off of them. But the data is just so overwhelming. But how did you first get onto it? What did you start to see? And maybe kind of a brief summary of where are we at? [00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's good. So, so what happened was after we put out our hospital protocol, Paul, and you know, we're in a non profit and our whole goal was to just come up for treatment protocols and. But we did want to be scientific, so we were looking at the evidence as it was emerging for lots of different therapeutics. And Paul even started like this kind of Excel table and he had it color coded like if the evidence was strong, he gave it a green light as, as far as use. If it was uneven, he gave it a yellow and if it showed harm or inefficacy, he put it red. And so we had like this almost like a medication tracker, you know, because the evidence was coming out so fast. Right. You remember that we'd look at preprints all the time. There's like studies that you're hearing of and, and he had Ivermectin on there through the summer with a question mark because we'd heard that ivermectin might be helpful. But there was no data, there's no data on ivermectin. And then what happened was in September, early October of 21, the studies started popping up and they're coming from around the world. Some were case series, some were small studies, but the benefits were massive. And when you started to put those trials together, you saw this overwhelming signal. And so Paul presented the data to us one day in October. And I was so intrigued by it that I immediately started to draft a review paper. It was called Review of the Emerging Evidence for ivermectin and COVID 19. And, and I think when I started my draft, I probably had six trials. By the time I completed the paper, I had like 37 trials. So like writing the paper was hard because every day that I was like finishing up my draft, the next morning I'd wake up, a new study came out on a preprint. I'm like, ah, got to put it into the analysis. And so what I discovered in starting to learn about Ivermectin, and I was shocked to learn this, but that they had been studying ivermectin as an antiviral for 10 years. 2012 was the first paper they did where they did an in vitro study on like, I think it might have been polio, but there was like a dozen studies showing ivermectin stopped the replication of like West Nile dengue polio, not measles, but Zika virus, hiv, influenza. And so there's tons of this in vitro data that it was a broad antiviral. And the Nobel Prize winner discovered it. He knew it too. At the beginning of COVID he had won the Nobel Prize with a scientist from Merck. He wrote to Merck early in Covid saying, please, can we have funds to do a study on ivermectin? We know it's broadly antiviral. So like it had the mechanisms. The clinical data was screaming from everywhere. The first person I treated turned around overnight. Like everything that was there. We knew this thing was a Covid, a really highly effective drug at treating Covid. And so we put in that protocol. And then pretty soon after that, I went back to the Senate for my second time and I gave the testimony and that's just kind of how it blew up. But like, but that's when the war started. That's when like, as soon as it started getting attention, you had all these media articles saying, oh, the trials are all low quality and can't be trusted. They're all small and poorly randomized. And you just hear this ab, you know, evidence based medicine speak. You know, all these pedigree doctors just basically saying, you know, other people are so brazen. They'd be like, oh, that's just another drug to be debunked, like hydroxychloroquine. You know, they would lump it in with, you know, anyone who believed that Anti parasite thing worked is a crazy fringe quack, you know, later it was an anti vaxxer. And so they can ridicule and disparage things in like these subtle and not so subtle ways. And, and it doesn't get credibility, whereas you get a, get, you get a complete corruption. Like remdesivir is lauded and infused to every hospitalized patients in this country by infectious diseases ever because the journals tell them that it's good and it's safe. Doctors are so trusting. They're also the most propagandized in society in all of Kobe because they were key to Covid. They were getting it from 360, they were getting from the journals, the agencies, the hospitals and the media. And so they literally believe. They were believing everything they were being told. And all of that information was being controlled and, and, and almost all of it was false. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah. What happened? If you want to get into it with you said your, your job started going away or hard to employ. And Paul, I don't remember with Paul. [00:40:15] Speaker B: But yeah, well, that level. So of the five of us in the flccc, three of our careers ended. The other one, his hospital got closed down and the fifth one kind of stayed under the radar and I think he escaped a lot of persecution and we were much more in public being Paul. But what happened with me is I resigned from the University of Wisconsin early in Covid because I refused to be a leader if they were going to do supportive care only I was getting, I was getting like, I was getting blowback from using corticosteroids, anticoagulants, things like that, and IV vitamin C. And I just said, I refuse. And I said, I ethically and morally object to your supportive care only. I did not want to be a part of this. And I left. I actually went back to New York and I fought on the front lines there because they were getting hammered in April of 2020. So I went back to my old ICU. There my next job was the day after my Ivermectin testimony. They sent me a new contract which had all sorts of infringements on my free speech. And I told them they didn't fire me. And I said, oh, you're sending me a new contract? I said, I'm going to tell you right now. The meeting was that night. And I told the chief medical officer, I said, you know, you don't have to send the contract if you put anything in there, which, which restricts my ability to speak publicly, not signing. And six hours later we're on a zoom they send me the contract while we're in the zoom. I open it up. There's like six clauses where I have to ask permission, you know, before talking to the press, doing anything. And I just said, I will not accept this. So that when I kind of got forced out and then I started to do Locum's work and I was so happy. I got a. I got a gig in the center of Wisconsin. I was making the best money I've made in my career. I'm working like a dog. But I loved it. I had a lot of freedom there, a lot of autonomy. The nurses loved me. I was really. I became really good friends with the id, the head of ID there. And he was supportive of Ivermectin. So it was like a. It was great. And my partners that hired me, they. They were really appreciative. Some of them had even owned my book. I taught them ultrasonic courses in the years prior. So, like, I was a little bit of a mini celebrity in terms of just old stuff then. But the hospital, the cmo, kept sending hit jobs in the media to my partners, telling them to get rid of Corey. And they backed me up. And for six months they told those, they told the administration, they said, if Corey goes, we go. And that place was impossible to recruit to. They had really hard times recruiting there. So my job was safe until the mandates came out. And then the hospital pulled some shenanigans and they did what's called a sham peer review. Basically, they put some complaints into your employment record and then they get rid of you. In my case, since I was an independent contractor, it was a quick phone call. It was like, hey, Pierre, we don't need you anymore. In Paul's case, what they did to Paul, I think still Paul is damaged from that because after his like 30 or 40 year career, not one patient complaint, not one employee or student complaint. In a span of about six weeks, eight complaints showed up in his record, all anonymous. You don't have to have names. There's no investigations. Some of them were so brazenly made up. And then he had to go before the. The credentials committee and the committee voted to remove his credentials. So they literally ended his career. Have you heard of shampoo review before? Because that was something Paul and I learned about when it happened. [00:43:53] Speaker A: No, I haven't. [00:43:54] Speaker B: Champagne reviews. Actually, it's almost like the disinformation playbook. It's a playbook for how doc hospitals get rid of doctors causing problems. And I'm not talking about problems like, you know, abusing harassing anyone. Just like someone who's not toeing the line that they don't want on. On staff. They just. That's what they do. They do shampoo reviews. And so they did a shampoo review on Paul and. And his clinical career ended. It ended. No more privileges. And then Umberto Maduri, who's another member. He's the. Literally, the world expert of corticosteroids and critical illness, immensely well published, brilliant guy. They ended his career. He worked for the. The va, and we happen to know this specifically, but the call came in from Washington, he worked in Memphis, to the Memphis va, And they said, get rid of Maduri. And they basically, his boss forced him to retire. They threatened his pension if he didn't retire. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Unbelievable. I mean, it is believable, actually, but. [00:44:57] Speaker B: Well, that's the blitz. [00:45:01] Speaker A: So, I mean, you have the most published pal Merrick in. In the whole field, the world's authority on corticosteroids. Just, boom. That can be a little disheartening or a lot disheartening for the general public that's listening, other physicians that are listening. We've got about 15 minutes left. What's the future look like? And is there hope? And how do we turn this thing around? [00:45:28] Speaker B: Well, you know, before, Ben, you were talking about, like, you don't know what the future looks like, whether it's gonna. We're gonna build a different system, a parallel or inside. I. You know, I don't. I don't know. I mean, obviously I don't tell the future, but where I live in the world right now, like, I live in a completely different sort of, I guess, network world than I did. Like, I'm. I'm out of that system, Ben. You know, after I lost my third job, I went into private practice. I don't talk with a lot of my former trainees or colleagues much. A couple of them call, and there's been a couple of supporters. Most of them went quiet. I think they thought I lost my mind. And obviously they're getting propagandized like crazy. So they probably said, oh, Corey lost his mind. He doesn't know what he's talking about anymore. Which is really odd because I'd won awards throughout my career. They knew I was a really good doctor. I had taught all of the medicine. And so, you know, to get written off so quickly is a bit odd. But, you know, you can be made to believe anything I. As I've learned. But, you know, I see the solution. I don't know how to fix that. System I know how to, I think, make. Like if you look at what Bobby's doing, he's making small, I think, important changes. I think the more of them it's just going to get, that system is going to get better and it's going to be more true towards its aim. But I think fundamentally it will always be captured and corrupt. But I do think you can make improvements there. But for real medicine and a medicine that people want to go to, I really think the answer is private practice. I mean, since I left the system and I have to, by the way, I don't take insurance. I can't. First of all, they took away my boards. I think you know that, right? I was boarded in three specialties and they took away my board certifications. And so no insurance company would have me anyway. So I just charge fees. But what I like about that is it's just so cool that practicing medicine, I don't have an employer, I don't have an insurance company. It's literally me and my patient and they pay fees. I can do. When I say I can do whatever I want, obviously I'm using a lot of judgment, prudence, deep study. But I'm learning a world of medicine that I never would have asked access before. I mean, I probably use 10 therapies that if you'd asked me about them five years ago, I'd be like, that's a bunch of crap. I mean, methylene blue, hyperbaric oxygen, chlorine dioxide, you know, like all these things that I use, like with alarming regularity and that are really effective, I would have laughed at years ago. So I'm having more fun, I'm more inspired and, and my patients love it. The problem, the problem with my practice, and I don't want to sound like falsely modest, but like, most of my career I took care of poor people, you know, like especially New York City. Most of my career was in New York City. I mean, I worked at hospitals where it's like 40 to 50% Medicaid patients. And like now with delivering excellent care, my patients in my practice are so happy. But they also have money, you know, so, like, it's hard. It's, you know, it's a shame that that system already is having some disparities, right? Like, it's not built for poor people. And you can't deliver high quality care for, for no money. You know, you have to, you have to get reimbursed for good quality care. And so we got the good quality care part, but the costs are, are still high, higher than it can for most people. But I see that a lot of growth in that and, and especially the need for autonomy. The way they went after doctors who prescribe, you know, people who lost their licenses for doing off label prescribing of Ivermectin, which is a standard practice, has been for 30 years. You can prescribe any drug for any indication you want as long as it has FDA approval. 30% of prescriptions are off label. But suddenly you lost your livelihood if you used one of the safest medicines in history. So the system is so scary that, you know, you know, Ben, I was talking to you before we got on about. I wrote a post this weekend about. I presented all the data of how badly quality of care is declining in the US Right now. And I came up with like a whole bunch of drivers for it. And you know, one of them, one of them is like that persecution of doctors and they're, they're protocolizing everything. And so you, you can't. Like, like when I was practicing in the icu, man, if I had someone crashing and I wanted to try something, even something like methylene blue, I did that in emergencies because you can do that for like severe vasoplegic shock. But, like, I would think up stuff, I would try different things and like, if I heard something at work, I could do it. And what I'm hearing now is like, it's much more rigid and controlled. Like, pharmacy won't fill something for you unless you have a randomized controlled trial to show them. So it's like getting policed to where there's no autonomy or freedom that's hurting patients. The other thing is another reason why I think quality of care. But this is a more touchy topic. I think there's a lot of cognitively impaired physicians because they were the most highly vaccinated subpopulation in the country. And neurological injury and cognitive deficits are immensely common after vaccination. Also, I found data which is the scariest data, Ben. But the NPs are proliferating like mad. And I want to be careful about that because my practice, my partners and NP, the ones that work for me are MPs. They are phenomenal, but they don't make them like they used to. My NPs have extensive nursing experience and extensive NP experience. Now young, young nurses are going to nursing school. They might do a half a year on the floors and then they go become an NP. And so you get in these very poorly experienced NPs that are proliferate and it's the fastest growing occupation in America. And then when you look at PAs, they're like the second or third fastest growing occupation. And if you see the numbers, there's an attrition of doctors, but there's an explosion in NPs. And my worry is the old guard, the wise, older, you know, teachers of the art of medicine, if there, you know, is there's attrition there and you're just filling it up with like relatively inexperienced and non extensively trained clinicians, that does not a good recipe for excellent medical care. And the burnout rates that I discovered, like the burnout rates in medicine went from 38% to like 68% in Covid. Now there's a lot of reason to get burnt out of COVID But like I think they're stressed, they're controlled, I think they're leaving, they're getting sick. Meaning that you know, the older, wiser doctors and there's just nothing but like young guns who I don't think have sufficient training. I think they can gain the experience over years, but at those numbers and at that rate and I think the teaching and clinical experiences are getting diluted. I think doctors are probably seeing less patients because there's so many NPs. And so I think it's almost like a vicious cycle. But I, I see that going really badly now. The one good part, like one of the good things, and this is what I'm working on, my new nonprofit is with Bobby in there. I know him personally and he has told me he's really interested in removing restrictions and funding research into off patent therapies or ones that they restrict to. You know, like he's even have, he has psilocybin on his list, but like chlorine dioxide, dmso. I mean there's so many therapies that are ignored and, or suppressed that really deserve good honest science behind them because they're cheap, safe, widely available and highly effective, particularly DMSO and strokes and brain bleeds. It can be a transformative therapy and they stopped using it years ago because the FDA did some dumb stuff around it. And so I do think that that is one. Like I'm really interested to see what Bobby's tenure brings about. I mean, I know he's getting crap, right? Anything he does, you know, you get the media screaming at him over everything, telling lies. But he's a very deeply studied man, very knowledgeable and I think he has a pretty clear idea on how to fix some of this stuff. And with Macri and Bhattacharya they're already sounding. I haven't heard public health officials make sense in five years. Suddenly you're hearing guys behind those podiums, they talk. And I'm like, hey, that sounds good. That sounds right. Like, it's so encouraging, finally, isn't it? [00:54:04] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Breath of fresh air, for sure. [00:54:07] Speaker B: It really is. [00:54:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think a big part of the solution is in doing what you're doing. Obviously, get upstream, get people before the hospital, teach them how to not need that system. I mean, the body will function so amazingly if you give it what it needs, avoid what it doesn't. That the doctor that first got my attention years ago. And just for the audience out there, I don't want y'all to be panicking about how that system's just failing. Basically, we're. What I think watching it implode on itself. And what Dr. Corey just said about these doctors leaving an inexperienced nurse practice coming in, you know, the. The future may be a little worrisome there. Well, just the. The number one way to not worry about that system is to not need it. [00:54:49] Speaker B: That's what I was about to say, but I know. I knew you were going to say that, but, you know, I like that you said, you know, we. I don't want to, like, you know, frighten or terrorize people by painting this really dark picture, but I would like to say just what you said is maybe hear that message as a motivation to keep yourself healthy. You know, just use it as a motivation to keep yourself out and keep yourself out of the hospital. [00:55:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I always like to take every opportunity I can to remind the listeners that all that high infant mortality rate in the late 1800s, early 1900s, we see a 98 to 99 drop in that mortality from all these big scary germs prior to vaccines rolling out. And that should be a huge alarm going off. [00:55:32] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:55:32] Speaker A: What. How did they do that? What happened? What happened? What happened? And it was clear. The terrain got cleaned up. And a lot of that was external terrain, better sanitation, refrigeration, nutrition, etc. And now it's internal terrain. It's. Our cells are so full of toxicity, meaning oxidative stress, because we're not stewarding that carburetor, that mitochondria. And that's it. It's that simple. It is a matter of just giving the body what it needs. It's a diet, lifestyle, including our thinking. And fear absolutely shuts down. That mitochondria drives oxidative stress, which could sound crazy to people, but it's true. And so it is the basics. The body's amazingly designed. Get back to those basics and then you don't need to. To. To fret over measles, germs or genes or anything else. [00:56:17] Speaker B: Good message. Love it. [00:56:19] Speaker A: But it takes knowledge and it takes us realizing the truth and what. What has been very well laid out here in the last hour. Yeah, the love of money, I think, is at the very root of it. And we see this captured everything education's captured the system, all the institutions, it's just a capturing. So just divorce yourself from that system. Don't need that system. And then walk in peace and truth and joy and. And live your long life that God intended for you to live. And it'll be fine. [00:56:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I always say my main rule in life is seek out information from those without a conflict of interest. Interest, very hard to do. But there are people without conflicts of interest and. And you want a true, unbiased, transparent source. And unfortunately, you're not going to find that in the media or the government, but luckily we have the Internet. I actually think what's saving the world is the Internet because it just has an amazing. Even though they try to control and shut it down and platform and delist and censor, it's too big, too vast and too uncontrollable. And so if, if you're smart and use judgment. Because actually, to be honest, Ben, I think what happened in Covid, it was a war of information, and the information was so polluted and it was all propaganda. And I'll just. You know, the best part, the definition of propaganda is that it's a story or a message to get you to think or act in a certain way. And I saw propaganda getting people to think really strange things and do really. When I say strange things that were clearly bad for their health and led to worse outcomes. But it all came from the information sphere. And so I think part of health, you know, part of detoxifying our world is not only keeping free of the poisons in our food, our water, our air, but you need clean, good information in order to stay healthy. And I think that's. That's why you have a podcast, Ben. [00:58:16] Speaker A: That's why I bring on amazing guests like you. [00:58:19] Speaker B: That was my plug for you, man. [00:58:21] Speaker A: I need all the help I can get. But what. Let's plug you a little bit, because that sub stack, which I've not read, but I'm going to. Yeah, talk. Talk to the audience about how to. People can follow you. [00:58:31] Speaker B: Yes, I write. I write a lot on, on health topics, mostly on promising therapies that I research and learn about and use and people really seem to like it. But it's, it's called Pierre Cory Medical Musings dot com. So Pierre Cory Medical Musings dot com but yeah, that's my sub stack. And then my book is the War on Ivermectin and then my non profit is Rebuild medicine. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:58:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Dr. Pierre Corey, thank you for. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Oh, my practice too. I do telehealth in all 50 states. We do vaccine injury long Covid. We do repurposed cancer protocols. And that's the leading edge clinic dot com. Yeah, it's Dr. Pierre core dot com. But if you just Google Leading Edge Clinic, we actually show up on a Google search. [00:59:19] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, you're going to continue to do amazing stuff and thank you for sharing your story with us. I think it's going to encourage a lot of people to get motivated to go be healthy. [00:59:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And thanks for your work, Ben, with, you know, everything you're doing down there in Texas, especially with this measles nonsense. And I know you're keeping the kids safe and I'm glad you're doing it. [00:59:41] Speaker A: Well. Thank you. Thank you for your help and your support. Absolutely. All right, everybody. Dr. Pierre Corey, I'll check out all his different things and we will be back next week with another great show. Remember, you're the cure. This will be on all the podcasts and on the website verito wellnessmember. Com. We'll see you all next week. [00:59:59] Speaker B: Bye.