Measles, Vaccines, and Informed Consent | Dr. Brian Hooker

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Dr. Ben Edwards here. Welcome to another episode of youf're the Cure. We are talking measles today. And I want to just start right off the bat by saying my goal is to bring some unity, bring some truth, bring both sides of the story because we all love kids and we want to do the best thing for our kids. And our goal is to have healthy American children the healthiest in the world. I believe we could have as hopefully if you listen to other shows, you've learned that. I've learned there were things I didn't learn in medical school and I've since learned. And so now I'm morally and ethically and legally obligated to give informed consent. And our practice tends to attract parents who are very knowledgeable and have really good questions. So that there's a perspective here that we're we're going to talk about and try to bring today. And I do want to say we're recording this on Thursday, February 27, 2025 at about 138. So we don't have the breaking. You know, I don't know. There was a death reportedly had measles. Don't know if they died from measles. With measles, I don't have any details. This was 24 hours ago. So I want to give my condolences to the family for sure. Every death of a child's a tragedy. I can't imagine having a death of a child. So that's first I want to say that and my respects to the family. My condolences and prayers are with you. And we want to be sensitive to that. And obviously I think we can see that the media's jumped in and it's this kind of thing that happens and not to minimize that death one bit. We want every child to live and be full and vibrant and healthy. The questions that I get from parents and I'll just like this is a great example if we go look in VAERS vaccine adverse event reporting system. How many deaths from the measles MMR vaccine? No, that's never reported. Nobody even knows that happens. Well, the answer is 94 since 2015. 94. How many deaths from measles excluding the the one 24 hours ago which again is still there's reports now for from family members it was RSV pneumonia. I don't know and it's too early to to get into that. So but aside from that we're going to say what from 2015 to current excluding yesterday, there was one death from measles in an immunocompromised person who was on immunosuppressing drugs. So 94 deaths from the vaccine, one from measles. That's what my patients go find. And then there's the underreporting factor on vaers. So this is a legitimate discussion for me to give informed consent. I need to be able to tell these moms that 94 is accurate or it's underreported. That's one piece of this. So there's a lot we're going to get into today because we're trying to bring the rhetoric down, bring some data and some truth with compassion and love, because there are kids dying from medical procedures and if there's ways we can reduce that or eliminate that, and that's dying, there's lots of injuries too. So we have to look at this whole thing and that hasn't been done very well. So I've asked Brian Hooker to come back on the show and join us to specifically go into some of this, but also for him to share his story. He's been on our show a couple times before. It's been a few years. So, Brian, welcome back to the show. Thank you for joining us. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Ben. It is so great to be back on the show. And, and again, my condolences also to the family of, of this one that has passed away. And, you know, I, I love the fact that you're doing this with sensitivity. We, we want to know, we want answers, we want to be able to take the best information and, and really, you know, the, the truthful information and make the best medical decisions for our own families. And so, you know, being here, being able to talk about, talk about this, talk, talk about, we. What we don't know with you right now, it's quite an honor. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Well, thank you. And I do want to give you an opportunity to share your story. I know you've shared it before, but we have a lot of new listeners and again, really being sensitive to the fact that we had. There was a child that passed away, so not taken away from that at all. But I do want to shed light on medical procedures come with risk and benefit. And I want to give just as much honor to the 94 families of the deceased since 2015 that the CDC has confirmed that the MMR vaccine caused that. And then let's have an open discussion about that. But I know your child was injured and probably, I would say preventable because he was sick at the time of his injection. But just share your story, who you are how you got here? Why are you even in this discussion? And then we can get into some more of the facts. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Well, my son Stephen was born in 1998. And you know, at this point we, my wife and I, we knew nothing. We knew, you know, that vaccines were good and that we should get my son vaccinated on time and they prevent all sorts of nasty diseases. But we didn't, you know, honestly I didn't really know that a vaccine injury was a thing. I guess, you know, you sign the vaccine information sheet and it says, oh, well, you know, there's a one in a million chance that your child could have it. A bad reaction to the vaccine. But I never really took that to heart until my son at his 15 month. Well, baby checkup. He was sick, but we took him to his checkup anyway and we knew that he had an active ear infection because earlier that day we visited the ear nose throat doctor and said he has an ear infection, he was having recurrent ear infections. And so put him on an antibiotic. And so we took him almost right after that appointment then to as well baby checkup. And the nurse practitioner said, well, you know, it's time for his vaccines. You know, at the end of the appointment, like they had a habit of doing, it's time for his vaccines. We'll go ahead and get him lined up and then you'll be ready to go. And we questioned that. I mean we normally didn't question vaccines at all, but that day we said, you know, he's sick. Is it okay to vaccinate a sick kid? I think he was running a low grade at the time. It was being controlled with Tylenol. Another whole, another conversation. But so he received those vaccines. He then immediately started to fever, high pitched screaming and he fevered for about 18 days and we controlled it with Tylenol, kept on calling the pediatrician, is this okay? Is this okay? You know, more Tylenol, more Tylenol. And then at the end of the 18 days, his fever spiked at 103 broke. And then at that point he lost all of his developmental milestones up to that point. He lost language, he lost eye contact. His medically, he all of a sudden became extremely fragile. I mean, you know, as bow just digressed horrifically. And he, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't having solid bowel movements anymore. I mean we used to literally call it poop soup from that point forward. And so it was like an atomic bomb went off in the system with that, well, baby checkup. And then three months later at his 18 month checkup, then he was diagnosed with full blown autism. [00:08:21] Speaker A: So what was your reaction at that point? [00:08:24] Speaker B: Well, it was quite obvious what happened. We didn't want to make the connection. I mean, you know, a parent never wants to make a medical decision or do anything that would adversely affect the child. So I think that it took us a while to really come to grips with the fact that that had happened. But it wasn't until we saw an integrative pediatrician when he was two years of age and integrated pediatrician said, look, he can't handle any more. No more vaccines. None. None whatsoever. And we were fortunate that after his 15 month shots, then he was not vaccinated. And then his system really, at the advice of this wonderful practitioner, couldn't handle it. And it would have set him back further on his heels, much worse. And Ben, Today he is 27 years old. He still cannot speak, he has no language, he has severe dyspraxia. And so he really, in a lot of ways, is a prisoner in his body. He's a speller. So he uses a modality called spelling to communicate in order to communicate, you know, his life, his personality. And that's only been going on for the last year, but it, it really drastically changed, for the worst, the trajectory of his life. I, you know, it's hard to say that as a parent, but that is what happened. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah. So did that lead you to looking into this more, becoming a vaccine education researcher, expert advocate, kind of what's the path that sets you on personally or professionally? [00:10:08] Speaker B: Well, I was really upset and, and, you know, was very angry about what happened to my son because there was absolutely no warning. We had a practitioner that told us the opposite. And then I found out that two of the vaccines that he received that day, and even many of the vaccines he'd received before that contained mercury. And, you know, that's not something that they put on the vaccine information sheet. So I started to really inquire with the CDC and I have letters behind my name. I have a PhD and so I thought, well, they have letters behind their name. I'll just give them a phone call. You know, we could have a talk about vaccines and neurodevelopmental disabilities and regressive neurodevelopmental disabilities. And the more that I tried that, the more hesitant the CDC became and the more brusque and dismissive they were of my concerns. And something just didn't smell right. I started really looking into this and about 2001, I realized they're not going to tell me the truth. They are absolutely not going to tell me the truth. How can the entire country trust them to do vaccine research? And so that really, at that point I couldn't do a whole lot because I was working for a government contractor at a Department of Energy laboratory. So I wasn't. But I was in the background doing all this vaccine safety research that I, I possibly could and trying to sort of fill the void for a CDC that, you know, was, was doing the polar opposite. They weren't. Not only were they not doing the right research, but they were lying about the research. [00:12:04] Speaker A: What led you to that conclusion that they were lying? [00:12:08] Speaker B: Well, you know, I was getting answers from chief scientists that had no scientific basis whatsoever. I'll never forget when a scientist told me this was a CDC immunization safety officer with a PhD in psychology and statistics said, oh well, my daughter got all the same mercury containing vaccines as your son and she's just fine. And so that's not a scientific statement. And of course I jumped all over. I was glad that, you know, I had the opportunity to, to educate him about statistics and epidemiology and how you can't really do an experiment with an NM1. But, but you know, answers like that, and then the, you know, back then they were doing studies that it seemed like whatever they did it was to indemnify vaccines from the autism epidemic, which was really just starting to explode. And, and I would see these statistical methods that were, you know, dubious at their core and would, you know, continue to question those methods and, and never got answers until I got a cease and desist letter from the CDC saying we're not going to answer any of your questions anymore. And that was in 2004. I got a cease and desist letter from an attorney because I was asking questions of these public servants, you know, as me as a member of the public and a father of a vaccine in your injured child. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Well, obviously that's a big red flag and you know, the probably on from the other side or what I always thought or was told was these are so rare, these injuries are so rare. And basically that's just part of the collateral damage to save the, the masses. We, we're going to have a little bit of collateral damage and it's, and they would emphasize the little bit that, that's kind of the impression I think most people have, most doctors have. Well, again, we're talking about kids and their health. So if there's a way to dig into this data and clarify exactly how rare then obviously we need to be doing that. That's what you were trying to get to. It sounds like, what's the truth about this? So now you're identifying that the truth is not being told. So take it from there. What? How? Because I know the end of this story. What happened from there? [00:14:42] Speaker B: Well, you know, I continued to do research, and my only recourse at that point was the Freedom of Information Act. So I was filing requests through the Freedom of Information act to get data and information from the CDC. I started publishing my own scientific paper starting in 2004 on vaccines and neurodevelopmental disabilities and neurodevelopmental injuries, and left my job with the government. I started working for a university in 2010 that had wonderful academic freedom so I could publish my work without any fear of recourse, which is quite rare. But then the phone rings in 2013. You know, fast forward really 12 years from when I started investigating the CDC. And it is a CDC researcher by the name of Dr. William Thompson. And this researcher had called me on in 2013 on his private cell phone. And, you know, it took us a while to really connect. You know, at first I saw it was a 404 area code that I knew it was a CDC. I had received harassing, anonymous phone calls from the CDC for a while, so I didn't pick up. But we finally emailed, got on the phone, and Dr. Thompson starts confessing, and he starts confessing all of this fraud around specifically autism and vaccines and other neurodevelopmental disorders like tics and add, adhd, and expressed concern not only that these, you know, thimerosal, the mercury containing preservative that was in vaccines was causing neurodevelopmental disorders. And it's. And it's, you know, perfectly plain because mercury is a neurotoxin, but also uncovering data for me to review and analyze myself that showed that when the MMR was given on time, that it was causing more autism, you know, specifically in boys, and then more specifically in African American boys than if they just waited to give the MMR until after they were three years of age. And, and the relationship in African American boys was really, really profound. They were almost four times more likely to get an autism diagnosis if they got that MMR on time than if they would just wait again until after their third birthday. It seems. Seems like a reasonable assumption, but the CDC, you know, according to Dr. Thompson, knew this on November 7, 2001. In fact, he sent me the memo that had the results in it and they chose to bury it. They, they, they grappled with this result for a number of months. And then in September 2002 they took all the evidence of that particular effect, they threw it in blue recycle bins and they had all the information shredded. They were supposed to withdraw and delete all the information off of their hard drives that would show that there was such an effect. And fortunately Dr. Thompson saved his records. [00:18:18] Speaker A: And so continued conversation with Dr. Thompson recorded on the phone. So now you've got audio recording, whistleblower clause is invoked and the data is submitted to Congress, is at a, or to a congressman. Is that a quick little synopsis from there? [00:18:36] Speaker B: Very, very accurate. That's exactly what happened. And then he issued a public statement in August 2014 after we had been working together for a period of about 10 months at that time. And so he issues this statement, you know, revealing this, this effect with African American males. And then I, I grappled with this, I had involved Dr. Andrew Wakefield as well. We grappled with this and we finally decided we're going to take this public. And so, you know, when, when, when Andy actually produced about a five minute video revealing the whistleblower story at that point in time. And then co. Currently the whistleblower, him, this press release through his attorney, you know, basically disclosing what the CDC had done. And he did it, he did this under whistleblower protection, but he did this without CDC's approval. [00:19:43] Speaker A: What was the fallback from that or the, the. [00:19:46] Speaker B: Well, it was really. Yeah, it was very interesting. I had, at that point I had written a paper, I had taken some CDC data that Thompson legally was able to get me. You know, there was no, no laws broken, nothing. These were records that were de. Identified. I had written a paper that was, that had been published in July of 2014 that showed this effect. Almost immediately that paper got taken down off the Internet. As soon as the whistleblower statement came out, they, they said, oh well, for the good of public health, we're taking your paper down. And so, so this paper comes down, you know, and, and then in some ways that became the story because they ultimately retracted my paper. And there was some sleight of hand, I believe in the background from CDC officials working with this journal that retracted my paper. And, and then, you know, the mainstream media, we tried to get them to cover this. The alternative media exploded. I mean there were about 5 billion impressions on Twitter at that point for the CDC whistleblower. So alternative media, everybody's Talking about this, it's even trending, you know, on Twitter, the hashtag CDC whistleblower. And. But the mainstream media did not pick it up. But fortunately, then filmmakers Andy Wakefield, Del Bigtree and Polly Tommy then produced a movie vaxxed from COVID up to catastrophe, and that told the entire story. And that came out in the spring of 2016. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Okay, so we're now in the spring of 25, nine years later. Has there been any action or any further statements from cdc, from government officials, Congress? [00:21:38] Speaker B: There was one unofficial. Well, well, it was a. A statement in. In an interview, Dr. Thompson's boss @ the time that they wrote this fraudulent paper that indemnified the MMR. His name was Frank DeStefano. He did an interview after the CDC whistleblower story broke. His interview with Cheryl Atkinson, an investigative reporter. And he admitted at that point, well, yeah, there are some cases where vaccines can cause autism. You know, that that's. You know, that that's plausible. That was it. Everything else, you know, everything else that you would think should happen did not happen. Congress did nothing. There was never a committee chair that subpoenaed Dr. William Thompson to appear before a congressional committee and give record of what he had disclosed or talked about. And so really, the only record that we had of this was my publication, which even after it was retracted, I took it to a different journal and it was republished, showing that the risk of. Of autism from getting the MMR on time was not only more significant in black boys, but also it's more significant in those kids that had regressive autism, which is, you know, pretty much, you know, 80% of all autistic kids do regress. And so. So we now we have this relationship that is established in the scientific literature, but Congress would do nothing. The. I. I approach the. The Office of Research Integrity in HHS at the time, they would do nothing. In fact, they. They reverted back to the CDC and said, oh, well, CDC will investigate themselves. And, you know, I just kind of laughed at that point in time because there was no, you know, there was no accountability. There was, you know, there it was. It was. Everything was fraught with myriad conflicts of interest. And again, if it wasn't really for the movie, Vaxed. There aren't a whole lot of people that know, you know, that the CDC whistleblower existed. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I do want to get your comments on that, but I want to read real quick because, I mean, I think we need to just, like, establish this, because I still hear it in some media that vaccines don't Cause autism. Well, number one, there's a vaccine injury compensation court. It's a government entity, not a true court, but they've paid out billions. I don't have the exact number today, but it's billions of dollars in injuries. But specifically to autism. Dr. Richard Kelly's, I believe is sometimes called as a witness for that court. He's a professor, pediatric at Hopkins or was. I don't know if he still is, but here's the quote. I also find with a high degree of medical certainty that the set of vaccines administered to Yates at 11, age 11 months while he was ill was the immediate cause of his autistic regression because of the effect of these immunizations to further impair the ability of his already weakened mitochondria to supply adequate amounts of energy for the brain, the highest energy producing tissue in the body. So that's just one case. There are others. And again, the argument is, well, maybe it's just a few. The one in a million. And again, we need to know the actual number. So if we know it can. Okay, let's we mark that question off the list. The answer is yes, it can. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Right? [00:25:13] Speaker A: Next, how often is it. And next do. Is there a way to predict? Is there a way to know? Like in this case, Yates was sick, he had a fever, like with your son and many others. That's right off the bat. Is there a male, female predominance? That's a risk. Is there a timing risk? Is there a number of vaccines administered at one visit? Is there a Tylenol? We can get into Tylenol in a minute. But if you pre medicate with Tylenol, because Tylenol can shut down glutathione, that's an antioxidant that can help deal with the oxidative stress of that injection. So many things. Things. I was just at a conference speaking in Dallas earlier this week. One of the fellow speakers presented, she was a doctor and African American from the Atlanta area. And her 14 year old African American son regressed into autism also. And I didn't get into any details. This was not a conference about that. She just happened to mention it in her presentation. But I immediately thought Atlanta and this, she, the, the boy's 14 years old, so 14 years ago and he's African American, he's a boy. If this would have been widely publicized, potentially, you know, there's a lot of ifs here, but that's the, that's where I go is where can we risk, mitigate risk, stratify this and give Wise counsel and informed consent to try to reduce this risk. But it takes with first it takes actually getting to the data, analyzing the data and this would not be hard to do. But just wanted to clarify that. I mean there's no question it can. It's a matter of how often and then what do we do about it, you know, and what are the risk if we just totally don't vaccinate at all? What's the risk of that? What's the risk of modified schedule? Just all the things. This is a huge discussion. One last quote and then we'll jump back in. And this was from a study published in E Biomedicine and it's regards to the oral polio vaccine. The study's authors, Mogensen M O G E N S E N I believe the date is looks like 2017. But here's a quote. It should be of concern that the effect of routine vaccinations on all cause mortality was not tested in randomized trials. All currently available evidence suggests that the DTP vaccine may kill more children from other causes than it saves from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. Though a vaccine protects children against the target disease, it may simultaneously increase susceptibility to unrelated infection. So that's a whole other part of this. We've got to know what, what are we looking at? Are we just looking at reduced measles cases and death from measles even versus deaths from other causes? So we got to go all cause mortality. We got to look at other, you know, diseases that could be associated. I mean there's just so much to this when a study comes out like this that anyways there's, there's just a lot, a lot of different directions we could go with this discussion. But maybe go back to Vax because that's another thing I see all the time. You just mentioned Andy Wakefield. Oh, fraud debunked. Right. And I'll ask the person if I have an opportunity to what was the fraud and what was debunked exactly? Did you read his paper? Did you read his book? Did you watch? Do you, do you even know? And a lot of times it's not, it's just this company line that they've heard and this actually reported in the media. So briefly. I know we, we're halfway through the show now, but kind of summarize it were when you hear that Andy Wakefield, he's debunked, he's fraud. What's your point of view on that? [00:28:39] Speaker B: Well, I, you know, I I know, you know, personally, Dr. Wakefield, and I've worked with him. You know, he. He was one of the people that actually, you know, sort of of took interest in my son when I met him at an autism healing conference called Defeat Autism now back in 2002. I've known him ever since as a friend. Not only did he help with my son, but he helped with a cousin of mine who had severe Crohn's disease, you know, and. And he's a compassionate gastroenterologist. And so, you know, that was in his wheelhouse. And, you know, I would never, for. I never forget that Andy would just give me a cold call and, and ask, how' your son doing? How's your cousin doing? Is there anything that we can do? And so, you know, such a compassionate man who dared to. In his 1998 paper, all he did was he said that parents were reporting autistic regression, you know, with gut dysbiosis, after receiving the MMR vaccine. He did not say that the MMR causes autism. He did not say that there was a definitive relationship. He didn't even say that they, at that point had found measles virus in the gut of these kids. All he did was suggest that there was a. That there could be a link because of the temporal. Because of the timing relationship. And because of that, he was eviscerated and, you know, was like the mainstream media and the General Medical council of the UK just declared war on him until, you know, in 2011, what was it, 13 years later, then he's written off of the GMC, which basically means he lost his license countrywide to practice medicine. And the. Just. Just for raising the question. And, you know, that one paper that was published in the Lancet, it took 11 years for it to be retracted. It was finally retracted under very, very dubious circum circumstances. Again, it never, never said that the MMR vaccine caused autism. It just raised the possibility. It just raised the question. And that is what shut down his career. And he's wonderfully started producing films that are very, very informative regarding this type of medical fraud. And I'm just so thankful for him. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you mentioned Vaxxed and I recommend people watch that. And then he's produced one more recently. Can you maybe share a little bit of that one? [00:31:25] Speaker B: Yes. He released a film called Protocol 7. You should check it out. If you just go to Protocol 7 movie. It is a really wonderful film and it's about a whistleblower that came forward from the company, Merck. Merck makes the MMR vaccine, that is the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine. And that was the vaccine that was exclusively given in the United states, really, from 1989 forward. That is the brand of the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine that was given to patients. And this whistleblower. Well, actually two, Stephen Kraling and Joanne Lokowski, who were technicians in the development laboratory that was evaluating the MMR vaccine, showed that Merck defrauded the government. Merck was actually putting much, much greater levels of virus. You know, the MMR is a live virus vaccine, and they were putting much, much greater levels of the virus in the vaccine vials than had ever been tested for safety by the, you know, by the FDA or evaluated for safety by the fda. And they started this. They call it overfilling. They started this overfilling practice in 1999. And so Protocol 7 details that entire journey of the whistleblowers, Lokowski and Kraling, and unfolds the entire story on the depths that Merck went to hide the issues with its MMR vaccine from the fda. And then the fact that the FDA just acquiesced and said, well, you know, we're going to buy your vaccine anyway. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Protocol 7 movie, y'all go check that out. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Correct. [00:33:18] Speaker A: So, Brian, let's talk about that MMR specifically, as far as what the research shows, what you have found, what's been published, not, you know, not just your opinion, obviously, but in terms of what's been shown in the literature to be potential adverse reactions and risk and various things. Again, trying. We're looking for informed consent. So what would be some of the things if you were a practicing physician giving informed consent based off the knowledge and the research you've uncovered? [00:33:48] Speaker B: Well, the MMR vaccine was evaluated by the Institute of Medicine. This is the institute that is a part of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences that stands is an independent body that, you know, reviews these vaccines, that reviews other medical interventions. And they found in their 2012 report that the MMR vaccine causes febrile seizures, that seizures that when a child has a fever, anaphylaxis, meningitis, encephalitis, thrombocytopenia. That's, you know, basically a very acute deficiency of platelets or thrombocytes, arthritis and vasculitis. In addition, the MMR vaccine has been shown to cause encephalopathy with features of autism. And that was a part of the Hannah Polling case that was awarded the family, Hannah Polling's family, after she received the mmr, among other Vaccines in a single catch up visit was regressed into autism, and they received a $20 million settlement from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Like you had said before, if you look at the VAERS database, which is woefully underreported, perhaps, you know, there's a report called the Lazarus Report that came out in 2011 that showed that VAERS captured about 1% of all vaccine adverse events. But if you look at the last 10 years in the VAERS reports, there are over 90 deaths, specifically 94, 4 deaths from the MMR vaccine even in this woefully underreported system. And then the MMR is also, if you look at the CDC's original publication regarding the MMR vaccine and autism, they were never able to hide the fact that boys that got vaccinated with their first MMR on time were 67 more likely to get an autism diagnosis than boys who got the first vaccine after their third birthday. And that is in the journal Pediatrics in a paper that was DiStefano et al. Frank De Stefano was the lead author on the paper that was published back in 2014. The MMR vaccine in its current state has never been safety tested because they started increasing the viral load in the vaccine of measles, mumps and rubella, all three of the viruses that they put in that vaccine. They started increasing the viral load of that vaccine beyond anything that had ever been safety tested. It's probably threefold higher in a concentration of virus than anything that's ever been safety tested and bought off by the fda. And so to me, it's really a grand medical experiment that we're putting these kids through. And correspondingly, the rates of anaphylaxis, after they started overfilling this vaccine in 1999, increasing the viral load in the vaccine, the rates of anaphylaxis went through the roof. And so, you know, anaphylaxis, that is primarily anaphylactic shock, where children are going directly into anaphylaxic shock very quickly after receiving the vaccine. And, you know, then, then there are, you know, myriad other issues. There are even publications that have linked the MMR vaccine to persistent asthma. And so, and that, you know, I'm sure there are things that I've missed. This was, you know, a broad brush of the literature that I had done really recently. But, you know, there are many, many adverse events. And even if you look at the packet insert, the packet insert, it says not to give the MMR vaccine for a sick child, especially or specifically a child that has a fever above 101.3 degrees Fahrenheit. And so, you know, that always kind of hits my heart because, you know, that's exactly what happens to my son. It was actually different vaccines, the mmr, but the packet insert actually reinforces you do not vaccinate a sick child. [00:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So you know, again, the other the pro hyper vaccination camp would say everything Dr. Hooker just said is so rare that you know, basically, sorry, there's going to be some collateral damage because we're going to save so many lives and so much suffering and death if we vaccinate the whole population on schedule. And so we can look to vaers. You've mentioned way underreported. So that begs the question, can we fix vaers? But it also begs the question, are there studies. I'm a big guy on all cause mortality. We don't need to get so laser focused as I just referenced in the study on DPT dying more from other causes. So what's the overall health status of a child on taking CDC recommended scheduled medical interventions called the childhood vaccine schedule versus groups of children who have not done that or even delayed that. Is there any way to compare that? And I do know there are some studies that have done that. So that's one way to look at this with knowing that VAERS needs cleaned up and is is hard to rely on to give informed consent. You know, know that there's a question mark there. So let's get that cleaned up number one. But number two, can talk about some of these studies that have looked some long term studies or vaccinated kids healthier or unvaccinated kids healthier. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Well, you know, this was. Right, right. Oh, sorry, sorry Ben, I didn't mean to cut you off. The. This was the study that we wanted and we being me, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Adele Bigtree, Aaron Siri, Lynn Redwood. Many, many advocates in the, you know, vaccine and hesitant health freedom community. We wanted this study to be done by the CDC and they never did it. They absolutely never did it. So an independent researcher came along by the name of Anthony Mawson and he looked at homeschool students who were by and large either partially vaccinated or unvaccinated. And he saw that the partially vaccinated children were about, let's see, 4.1 times more likely to get an autism diagnosis, 2.7 times more likely to get a developmental delay diagnosis in general. So any neurodevelopmental disorder, they were, you know, almost three times as likely to get that diagnosis. Than their unvaccinated counterparts. They were over four times more likely to get asthma. They were also had more recurrent ear infections, more recurrent respiratory infections. I came along with a publication then that I did with Neil Miller, vaccine safety advocate out of New Mexico, and this was published in a journal called Sage open medicine in 2020. It's actually indexed in the National Library of Medicine. You can see this study and it showed that children that their vaccines on time and no, I'm sorry, these again were partially vaccinated versus unvaccinated and just vaccines considered. In their first year of life, they were over twice as likely, 2.5 times more likely to get diagnosed with developmental delays, 4.5 times more likely to get Diagnosed with Asthma, 2 and a half times more likely to get diagnosed with gastrointestinal issues, and then just over two times more likely, twice as free frequent ear infections. And this has been repeated several times by several different studies. Dr. Mawson just came out with a study about a month ago that was published in the journal Science, Public Health Policy and the Law. And he affirmed these results and showed that autism was about 4.4 times more likely in those children that were highly vaccinated versus those children that were unvaccinated. I did a study in 2021 with fully vaccinated kids versus fully unvaccinated kids and the rate of autism was five times higher in the fully vaccinated kids. The rates of things like ADD, ADHD were 27 times higher in the vaccinated group compared to the unvaccinated group. And so, you know, by and large what we were seeing was that the vaccinated kids were suffering, they were less healthy, they were having more actual non specific infections, not those that were protected by their vaccines, but things like respiratory and ear infections. They were having more autoimmune disorder diagnoses and they were having more and more neurodevelopmental disorders. [00:43:37] Speaker A: What about sudden Infant Death Syndrome? Sids, also formerly known as caught death. And I'm just remembering during the COVID lockdowns, you know, the pediatric visits for routine, well, child visits went down because everybody was locked down, staying home. And I saw some corollary data and I don't remember this where I saw this or who published this, but basically Sid's death had a dramatic drop in this window that correlated with decreased vaccination because everybody's in lockdown. Are there studies that have been published that have looked at SIDS in relationship to either timing of vaccination, number of vaccines, or in any way a relationship there? [00:44:17] Speaker B: Yes, there's one study. Well actually I think there are two separate studies done by Gary Goldman and PhDs independent researcher and Neil Miller. And it showed that the timing of the SIDS deaths corresponded with their vaccination appointment. And so they were getting vaccinated. And you see how these SIDS deaths would cluster. About 50% of all SIDS deaths occur within two days of vaccination. About 75% of all SIDS deaths occur within a week of vaccination. And it's not like you're vaccinating these children every week. I mean they're getting their, their, their two month, four month, six month. And so for these to cluster specifically around vaccination appointments, is it at a minimum suspicious and further study. And you're absolutely right. If you looked at the VAERS data of, of deaths reported after vaccination that were SIDS deaths in 2020 when the lockdown started to occur, those SIDS deaths went, went down by over I think 40%. So we saw a decrease in SIDS deaths when children were not allowed to go to the pediatrician. And so they were, you know, know, quote unquote falling behind from their childhood vaccines. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Well, I would say you've laid out a pretty good case. And I mean obviously I'm biased. I didn't learn any of this in medical school. I had to do some continuing medical education on my own outside the conventional model to find this. A lot of it from you and Dr. Wakefield and others. Barbara Lo Fisher at the Vaccine Information Center, national vaccine information center. J.B. hanley, we've had him on the show. His book how to End the Autism Epidemic. Great book. Love JB in that book's probably one of the number one books. Yeah. So I mean I just don't know how anyone couldn't listen to this interview, do a little bit of research and come to the same conclusion that at a minimum there's a legitimate conversation that needs to be had. And at a minimum the CDC needs a major overhaul in, specifically in the vaccine of adverse event reporting system if not across the board. Bring that William Thompson data forward. Let's move that ahead through a committee and let's, let's come to this place for the sake of our children's health and definitely don't go into fear mongering mode when there's an outbreak. Again, not minimizing that they're sick kids and there's consequences of that, that. But there's so much more to this story. So we've got about 10, 15 minutes left. Ron, if you were in charge, I mean, we do have Secretary Kennedy now, right? And you know, I hate getting into politics, but as I think I've heard Bobby say, even it's all about the children. It's about their health. That's why I'm doing this thing. That's why I'm doing this thing. And I believe that's why most pediatricians are doing this thing. They love kids. They want healthy kids. They want to see thriving, healthy kids. Most pediatricians train, like me, very narrowly. If they heard this conversation, they would. Their eyes would be open. They may go into cognitive dissonance. And I did that at first, spent about a year wrestling in my mind, how could this be? So there's a lot to consider there. But I mean, at this point, I mean, I'd almost have to say, like, the, the data is there, guys. I mean, yes, you almost have to be willfully blind, willfully ignorant, willfully turning, turning your head to this. It's time for some confession, some apologies and repentance, and let's move forward and let's clean this thing up and do a better job. So what would be your next steps if you were in charge? [00:48:10] Speaker B: Well, if I were in charge, the first thing that I would do is I would throw open all the coffers of information that have been under wraps for such a long time. The main database of the CDC is what's called the Vaccine Safety Data Layer link. And that has records of 10 million patients from 10 participating HMOs. All that's been de identified, you know, all the private identifiers have been stripped out. And so, you know, to throw that open to independent researchers, you know, what would be the harm? What would be the harm of actually doing the independent study? And this is a database that has been shrouded for years and years and years. Probably at this point, it cost about $50 million of taxpayer dollars a year to maintain that database. But it is all kept private within the cdc. And so, you know, you and me, we're paying money for the CDC's own playground. And quite frankly, they have not earned our trust. We need independent scientists going in there and looking, looking at, you know, the information. And then I would also look at the risk and benefits of vaccination. You know, as, you know, a lot of these infectious diseases, the mortality associated with these infectious diseases was in decline well before the introduction of a vaccine for these diseases. That was the case for measles. The measles vaccine was introduced in, I believe, 1961. And the rate of mortality of measles in the United States in 1961 was on a population basis was about 2 per million children. Children. Okay. So, you know, when measles was active and raging, there were about two deaths per million children per year. And so the mortality had drastically reduced before the vaccine had been given. The mumps mortality was nil. It was there, you know, it was difficult to assess the mumps mortality when they came out with the mumps vaccine in 1967 because there weren't any deaths. You know, it was a big goose end. And so I think looking at, taking a step back, looking at the vaccination schedule in light of modern medicine, in light of the ability to treat infectious diseases and infectious syndromes that we've been vaccinated, vaccinating against, you know, we need to be able to step back, reestablish good public health, good point of care medicine, and for goodness sakes, we need to be able to let parents choose. We need to let parents choose. I, you know, no offense to the medical profession, no offense to people that have letters behind their names, but parents are the ones that are spending 247 with their kids. And so, so they do have, they, they have a wonderful gut check. They, they know what's best for their children. And we also want to give them in line with that in true informed consent. So when you sit down and you make a decision about an intervention, regardless of whether it's a pharmaceutical, an over counter, the medicine like Tylenol or a vaccine, let's bring all the information to the table. So those individuals, those parents, those, the individuals themselves, the caretakers, they can make the decisions for what they're going to be putting in their body so they, they retain some type of bodily autonomy. So I would love to see all of that happen very, very quickly. I don't, you know, everybody, you know, is shouting with their hair on fire. Bobby is going to outlaw vaccines. You know, he's going to abolish vaccines. No, that's not going to happen. You know, we want to be able to look at everything and, and by we, I'm not speaking for Bobby, you know, I'm speaking more for my organization, Children's Health Defense. But you know, we want to leave no stone unturned in being able to promote the best health for children and then ultimately also clean up the mess. There is a huge mess that, you know, has just been iatrogenic crime against the, the American society. You know, we look at the rate of chronic disease in Adults. We look at the rate of chronic disease in children, not only do we need to reverse that and provide alternatives to individuals, healthy alternatives to individuals that, you know, have been consuming junk medicine, junk food, junk air, junk, everything for such a long time. And then we need to be able to adequately compensate individuals that have sustained things like COVID 19 vaccine injuries, childhood vaccine injuries. You know, my family was in the same program that compensated Hannah polling. We were in the same program for 16 years and we got kicked out without a red cent. In fact, we've spent way, way more money than we were ever would have ever been compensated. But we were ruled out. My son was tugging his ears at six months because he had active ear infections. And the special master ruled that that was a sign of autism. And so that before his 15 month vaccines that he indeed had autism because he tugged his ear. So we had these ludicrous things. The government was covering their butt because they were afraid that all the autism cases were going to bankrupt the national vaccine injury compensation program. And so we have all these families with vaccine injured children now, vaccine injured adults. And the government needs to come to bear and compensate these families. We need to look back at these injuries and then especially so many injuries associated with MRNA vaccines, you know, through the COVID 19 shot. [00:54:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, talk about restoring trust in the medical profession, in the CDC and government in general. That would, that would go a long ways. If we could do what you just laid out, that would be amazing. [00:54:33] Speaker B: I'm sorry my laundry list is long, but, but, you know, and, and there's so many medical practitioners that, that I meet that they don't want to hurt anybody. They don't want to hurt people. They don't want to intentionally hurt people. But we want to make sure that medical practitioners have the best information in their hands. My goodness. When something happens that a medical practitioner could have prevented in their own practice, I'm sure that that does not bode well for them physically, emotionally, or in whatever way, shape or form. You didn't get into medicine to do anything but to heal people. People. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's a lack of knowledge. Our, our practitioners just aren't educated in this manner. Obviously in medical school, I literally was just told to memorize the schedule and give it they're safe and effective and that was it. I mean. And that Andy Wakefield was a fraud, right? [00:55:26] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I have a microbiology textbook that has a whole page on Andy Wakefield being a fraud. I, I photocopied it. I sent him a copy. [00:55:35] Speaker A: I'm sure he appreciated that. [00:55:37] Speaker B: Oh, birthday card. No, no, no. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Well, we got to wrap it up here. I want to just remind for, you know, again, the local population in this measles outbreak. A healthy immune system is your number one defense. As Brian talked about, there was, there was a huge drop, a 90, 98 drop in mortality from 1900 to 1955, prior to vaccines coming on this stage. And what did that was cleaning up the external environment, sanitation, clean, you know, sewage treatment and clean water, nutrition. It's clear in the evidence that's been looked at and studied by Harvard and Mayo and Boston University and CDC and. Or Hopkins, not Mayo. But it's been well documented and published that it was all about cleaning up that environment. And now it's our internal environment. We have so mismanaged our mitochondria. That's your carburetor inside your cell. Just imagine your white blood cells, your immune system cells to go gobble up measles or covet or influenza or the 10,000 other viruses out there. That white blood cell needs energy. We've got to get our mitochondria, that's your energy producing factory in the cell, to work better. That's pretty plain and simple. We've got to tune up our cellular mitochondria, our cellular energy production and that the standard American diet, the standard American sitting all day, stress. It's these basic lifestyle factors that cause mitochondrial dysfunction and therefore that white blood cells can't do, can't mount the response and do what it needs to do. So we are more susceptible now. And that's in part why we are the sickest country in the world. More of our kids die than any other country. Our infant mortality rates the highest of any industrialized country. Our maternal mortality, our overall life expectancy, all the stats that Bobby Kennedy references all the time, that I reference all the time. This is a major, I mean this measles, a big wake up call and hopefully can start this conversation and with Bobby Kennedy at HHS and, well, who knows, hopefully we'll see what we can get done. But as Brian said, we're all in it for the same reason. That's the health of the children. I know the pediatricians are too. I know there's a lot of hard work in nurses and medical staff right now in West Texas treating kids and we've treated some here. So let's be on the same team. Let's get all the data out there and let's make the best decisions. And I just do want to say I referenced this earlier in some other shows but vitamin A was associated with an 82% reduction in the risk of mortality in children under 2 years of age. That was a study by de Souza that was in Cochrane Databases Systemic Review, 2001. The name of that study is vitamin A for treating measles in children. And these are African American children who were very, very malnourished. So malnourished children, mostly Third world is where the mortality comes in, in measles first world, even though our diet in America is not great, but in a first world condition, it's highly unusual for there to be a measles mortality or death. And I would say to the point of there's got to be some underlying condition, there's got to be immunocompromised state, but even in that condition, I think with the right treatment, and that's a whole nother discussion, integrative therapies being integrated into conventional pharmaceutical therapies. There's so many things from vitamin A to vitamin C we can get into other things, but there's a lot to this conversation. So I hope this starts the conversation going in a different direction nationally. We'll see what, what comes out of CDC and Washington D.C. but again, our condolences to the family, our condolences to the. All the victims and 94 deaths from the MMR vaccine and probably again underreported, obviously, for the recent death of the child, whether it was RSV or pneumonia, measles, whatever it was, a child died and we're so sorry about that. And let's come together as a nation and put the politics aside and let's do this for our kids. Brian, I'll give you the last word. Thank you for joining us again today. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much. And, and I couldn't have said it any better, Dr. Edwards. We, it, it is all about the children. Let's put our differences aside so we can have the healthiest, happiest children that we can possibly have. You know, as parents, we want nothing more than to see our children flourish and to see, and to see that next generation go beyond what this generation achieves. So let's, let's put all of our differences aside. Let's, let's look at the data, let's look at the information, let's do the best science possible because our children deserve no less. [01:00:10] Speaker A: Amen. All right, everybody. I'm Dr. Ben Edwards. This has been another episode of you're the Cure. It'll be archived on our website, veritas wellnessmember.com it'll be all over the podcast platforms and. And hopefully on YouTube. Sometimes YouTube don't like us, but I think they should like this one. We'll see, but it'll be on the website. So y'all check it out. And Brian, what's the best way for people to follow you? You mentioned Children's Health Defense Fund, and I'm sorry, I totally forgot to mention that. [01:00:36] Speaker B: But childrenhealthdefense.org is our website, and then they can follow me on Twitter @BrianHooker PhD. [01:00:48] Speaker A: Awesome. All right, guys, y'all go check that out, and we will see y'all next time. I'm Dr. Ben Edwards. Bye. By.